KVR Audio

Protocol_b · Post by **Protocol_b** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:56 pm

Greetings all/any! I'm about ready to jump ship on the Mac club - I want MIDI out from devices (Cthulhu, Kirnu, Thesys etc.). The IAC workaround is just sad. Arpology/Kontact is too expensive. But before I go Windows, any suggestions? I would stay with Mac if I can. I get the impression that Reaper/Mac may be able to perform the required magic - can anyone confirm? Any other suggestions? Much appreciated, many thanks!

dformd · Post by **dformd** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:03 am

Why are you using a host/DAW that requires your plugins be Audio Units?
Should I assume you're using Logic?
There are many other great hosts/DAWs for Mac OSX that load VST plugins.
Why not use one of them?

Another option you have is to host/load the Audio Unit version of Bidule in Logic (if that's what you're using) and host/load the VST versions of Cthulhu, Kirnu, Thesys etc... and your synth(s) and/or sampler(s) in it (Bidule).

All the plugins you mentioned (Cthulhu, Kirnu, and Thesys) have both AU and VST versions (both of which you receive when purchasing them and both of which are offered in demo versions)

The VST versions of each offer MIDI out directly to the host.

Why not make sure the VST versions (of Cthulhu, Kirnu, and Thesys) are installed to your Mac's VST directory and try loading them in the demo versions of various other Mac hosts/DAWS?

I don't use Reaper, but from what I've read it seems like a good one to try. Actually; from what I've read (in this forum); I'd be surprised to find out it can't do what you want it to do.

There are also many other options for great Mac OSX hosts/DAWS that can load VST (and often also AU) plugins.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:12 am

This is only a problem on a Mac when using Audio Units (although it's possible to send MIDI out, this part of the spec is not used because it's difficult to implement). So ... use a host that allows VSTs:

Ableton Live
Studio One
Cubase
Reaper
NI Maschine

Those are the main ones, there may be others ...

Peace,
Andy.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:02 am

I just found this thread on the Logic Pro Help forum:

http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewt ... 1&p=552915

It suggests using Cthulhu as a "MIDI FX" plugin, which means no more IAC routing. Not sure if the resulting MIDI can be recorded, but it sounds like it will be possible to use Cthulhu to trigger any AU instrument plugin.

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:11 am

I'd like to add to that, that if you decide to go with Live, if you get Suite you get M4L, which is a real treasure trove for all kinds of weird and wonderful arps, sequencers and other midi manipulation tools.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:31 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote:I just found this thread on the Logic Pro Help forum:

http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewt ... 1&p=552915

It suggests using Cthulhu as a "MIDI FX" plugin, which means no more IAC routing. Not sure if the resulting MIDI can be recorded, but it sounds like it will be possible to use Cthulhu to trigger any AU instrument plugin.

Is this a new thing with Logic X?

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:09 am

aMUSEd wrote:Is this a new thing with Logic X?

Yes MIDI FX are new to Logic X. I don't have Cthulhu so haven't tested it myself, btw.

There is also this plugin from Audio CR that allows recording of MIDI FX and drag n drop functionality:

http://www.audiocr.com/index.php

Using Track Stacks it should be possible to save a set of channels to use in any project, so that the setup time is minimised i.e. just drag the saved track stack to the arrange window.

Still not as easy to use as other hosts, but it's a start ...

Peace,
Andy.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:16 am

Oh well since I'm still on 9 I'll stick with using Metaplugin for this.

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:49 pm

This thread reminded me that Cthulhu was now MIDI FX in LPX. Nice one - just tried it out, appears to work great. Result.

Protocol_b · Post by **Protocol_b** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:36 pm

Seriously?! Wow I was laboring under a delusion! I thought that ANY MIDI/audio processing on a Mac was forced to go via the AU spec, i.e. that the AU spec was internal to the Mac itself for processing these functions at all times. I was aware that Cthulhu was now a MIDI FX plug (although really weirdly, they do not mention it on their site or in their manual whatsoever - I would think it would be excellent bragging/marketing material) - and I love Cthulhu, but it does not send program change msg's which I enjoy doing, nor can MIDI FX be recorded (but I intend to investigate the audiocr.com site mentioned above - exciting!).

And yes, I am using Logic, sorry for the oversight - I obviously should have mentioned that.

I covet Live Suite also, but have financial constraints.

And I do indeed have the VST versions of all of those products. SO…. all I need do is investigate various hosts to ensure they provide some of the MIDI processing capacities I use in the Logic Environment (I am an avid plumber of thing-um's). A million thanks to everyone - every reply here was highly informative and well-considered - you all have really made my day!

I…. I think... I think I love you.

C-note · Post by **C-note** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:48 am

Cubase handles both easily

Protocol_b · Post by **Protocol_b** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:16 am

Ah! Cubase - there's another one - thanks C-Note! BTW, for those discussing Cthulhu now being an LPX MIDI FX plug, Kirnu Cream is also now capable of that in Logic X - the latest demo download for it includes AU, VST & LPX versions. So if Xfer Records and Kirnu can provide that for less than $50, why can't Sugarbytes do me a solid when they charge $129 for Thesys? Riddle me that!

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:21 am

Cubase doesn't work with Audio Units, it only supports VST.

But I might have interpreted the above statement incorrectly, apologies if so ...

ValliSoftware · Post by **ValliSoftware** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:40 pm

ZenPunkHippy wrote: Not sure if the resulting MIDI can be recorded,

Yes but it has to go out then back in using IAC or MIDI Hardware (standard way for Logic Pro X MIDI FX plug-ins), but even then it will required a little cabling in The Environment since you trigger Cthulhu from a selected track.
If you decide you want to MIDI record, you have to go out then back in as I mentioned, but for an instrument to receive that it has to be the selected track which would be the same track as your triggering Cthulhu from which doesn't result in the desired effect.
Once you do select another track to avoid that less desired effect, you've now taken away triggering Cthulhu

, kind of a catch-22. That's why the little cabling in The Environment.

ZenPunkHippy wrote: It suggests using Cthulhu as a "MIDI FX" plugin, which means no more IAC routing.

Unless you want to MIDI Record.

I purchased Cthulhu awhile back and just tired this.

ValliSoftware · Post by **ValliSoftware** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:47 pm

Protocol_b wrote:Greetings all/any! I'm about ready to jump ship on the Mac club - I want MIDI out from devices (Cthulhu, Kirnu, Thesys etc.). The IAC workaround is just sad. Arpology/Kontact is too expensive. But before I go Windows, any suggestions? I would stay with Mac if I can. I get the impression that Reaper/Mac may be able to perform the required magic - can anyone confirm? Any other suggestions? Much appreciated, many thanks!

For me, IAC is sometimes a hit and miss. When it's a miss it's when I MIDI Record, the first bar is usually out of sync but then everything does sync again

What I do now is I just use MIDI Hardware instead. Ever since, I've never had any issues at all.
I have a iConnectMIDI2+ but you can use any hardware MIDI device. I cable on my iConnectMIDI2+ from DIN2, from the OUT of DIN2 to the IN of DIN2. I just thought about that one day and sure enough, works like a charm.

For Logic Pro X MIDI FX plug-ins, this works great.

Now the bad news, I just check and Cthulhu only allows you to select from a IAC port. It should allow you to select from any OUT port including MIDI hardware devices.

Sick & Tired of the AU Spec! Alternatives? Does Reaper on Mac Allow MIDI Out From Plugs?