Roland D-50 Emulations???

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Numanoid wrote:
Turello wrote:... Talk talk but in the end nobody can not do anything!
Here is very simple solution for you.

Buy this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-D-50-Lin ... 4adc4a1103

Midi it up to your computer

Et voila, D50 sounds play inside your computer
What if it breaks down? Or if something fails? It is an old machine, after all.

Software is much more convenient. AND, in software, you can have as many as you want. In hardware, you are limited to one. That's why there is all this discussion - there are people that still want to use it, but taking advantage of today's technical advantages, not having to get back to the eighties.
Fernando (FMR)

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fmr wrote:What if it breaks down? Or if something fails? It is an old machine, after all.
Then you go classy and get the card for the V-Synth 8)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-V-Synth- ... 27ec111df2

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Lotuzia wrote:
fmr wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:Every thread, is it one per quarter ?, about the *D50 vst* ends like this.... :shrug:

Déjà vu ........

As for me I'll never buy a product wich steals another companys work. Whatever the law subtleties are. Period.
Laurent, I never defended stealing. Actually, I think that, if someone created a sample library out of synthesizer (real synthesizers) presets created by other people, THAT would be stealing. Yet, under the copyright laws, that would be legal, if I understood well.
Hi Fernando, did not see you were part of the topic. Well, I think that old synths, and to be straight to the point, old analog synths, can be sampled if you make your own presets on them. Presets are a precise organisation of a set of parameters with an artistic intention. As such, They can be compared to code also I guess.
Not necessarily. There are very valid arguments that a preset is not, by itself, protected by copyright. Certainly, they are not audio recordings so the bright line rule does not apply and this opens them up for all sorts of fair use arguments. To the best of my knowledge, this has also never been challenged. Do you know of a court case where presets have been viewed as code? Or is that just speculation?

It seems to me that the KVR cannon is comprised of what KVR members would like to be the case, and not necessarily what is. Everything that KVR members does should be protected with the strongest terms so that their way of life is preserved.

Personally, I treat presets as settings for a machine and, as such, I don't believe that they are copyrightable by themselves in any sense that is worthwhile. I think that only in a collection can they be viewed as a legitimate copyrightable work. If someone has a good reference to a court case that is very applicable I'd be delighted to read it.

A lot of things that we think should be copyrightable aren't and you don't get to just call a thing something else and claim that therefore it's copyrightable. Schematic diagrams, other than as an image, are not copyrightable. If you put your design on the web and someone else redraws it and claims it as his own, there's not much you can do about it if your work isn't patented. The specific arrangement of parts into a design is not a copyrightable work.

http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=40070.0

The essence of the ideas here is written in copyright law. Copyright does not protect the idea, only the expression. So, the idea of the circuit design isn't protected, only the expression, the artwork.
Last edited by ghettosynth on Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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So, let me guess: if Lotuzia creates a patch for Oxium I can't redistribute it as it is (in form of "patch for Oxium"), it would be a steal (obviously). On the contrary, due to the fact Oxium is based on waveforms and not on samples, I can of coirse sample the same Lotuzia patch and sell it as a "Kontakt patch" calling it "Oxizia" or whatever: that it is perfectly legal, infact most of so called "Kontakt Synths" are just sampled versions of old analogic/semianalogic gear (Juno, Moog, Oberheim etc,). Not only it is perfectly legal, but it becomes my property. If Lotuzia (who created the original samlled patches) wants to play them, he has to pay. For the rest, it is just a question od masking the name, such as "Meg", "Mhug", "Jena", "Obi" etc. What a paradox, indeed. The "thumb" (as in "finger used to play rec on a recorder") paradox.
Last edited by mhog on Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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No, presets aren't in any formal class which is legally covered by copyright law - that's a different case to audio recordings, which are.

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mhog wrote:So, let me guess: if Lotuzia creates a patch for Oxium I can't redistribute it as it is (in form of "patch for Oxium"), it would be a steal (obviously). On the contrary, due to the fact Oxium is based on waveforms and not on samples, I can of coirse sample the same Lotuzia patch and sell it as a "Kontakt patch" calling it "Oxizia" or whatever: that it is perfectly legal, infact most of so called "Kontakt Synths" are just sampled versions of old analogic/semianalogic gear (Juno, Moog, Oberheim etc,). Not only it is perfectly legal, but it becomes my property. If Lotuzia (who created the original samlled patches) wants to play them, he has to pay. For the rest, it is just a question od masking the name, such as "Meg", "Mhug", "Jena", "Obi" etc. What a paradox, indeed. The "thumb" (as in "finger used to play rec on a recorder") paradox.
Pretty much!

it's a grey and murky world, at least as far as lawyers are concerned. And they like it that way...

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beely wrote:it's a grey and murky world, at least as far as lawyers are concerned. And they like it that way...
+1 :hihi:

An easy way to get into money

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mhog wrote:So, let me guess: if Lotuzia creates a patch for Oxium I can't redistribute it as it is (in form of "patch for Oxium"), it would be a steal (obviously).
Even that's not clear. But, let's assume that you're not being a total douche and you just use Lotuzia's patch to create your own. Maybe you change the name and one setting. I have many patches that are of this form. Let's say you get a bunch of these together and release them as your own patch library, some inspired by Loutuzia, some inspired by others, maybe a few from init patches, whatever. I don't think that you're violating copyright and I don't think that there's any cases that support that you are.

The question comes down to how the courts view a patch. But, let's consider something similar, but a bit different. A recipe could be said to be a description of a product where the product has an artistic intent, no different than a patch. What does the copyright office say?
How do I protect my recipe?

A mere listing of ingredients is not protected under copyright law. However, where a recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in the form of an explanation or directions, or when there is a collection of recipes as in a cookbook, there may be a basis for copyright protection. Note that if you have secret ingredients to a recipe that you do not wish to be revealed, you should not submit your recipe for registration, because applications and deposit copies are public records. See FL 122, Recipes.
So, is a patch a recipe, or code? Well, maybe neither. Certainly this isn't a new topic.

From Sound on Sound:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf ... t=all&vc=1
There was a huge debate about this from Keyboard Magazine back in the 80s, with Bo Tomlyn, the famous DX7 programmer, lobbying the U.S. Congress to have patches made copyrightable. I think he lost.

In the letters section of one of the magazine issues, someone blasted back at Mr. Tomlyn's guest editorial by saying.....

"He is not a programmer. He is a DX7 patch creator. These are not the same thing. A program (such as a script in C++ or Pascal) is copyrightable because it involves an infinite number of variables. A DX7 patch is just a combination of numbers from a fixed number of possibilities, albeit a very large number.
There's a lot of useful discussion in that thread, but, basically, it supports the idea that a patch is a list of numbers and not really subject to copyright for various reasons, but, a collection of patches may be. That is the stance that I take as there is not other "law" on the matter to tell me otherwise.
Last edited by ghettosynth on Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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If Roland were to release a D50 plugin emulation.

How much would you be prepared to pay for it?

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Numanoid wrote:If Roland were to release a D50 plugin emulation.

How much would you be prepared to pay for it?
zero, the D50 is a dated rompler with shit filters.

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ghettosynth wrote:zero, the D50 is a dated rompler with shit filters.
So your reason for participating in this thread is?

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Numanoid wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:zero, the D50 is a dated rompler with shit filters.
So your reason for participating in this thread is?
Because I want to, I believe that's all that is necessary. Unless I'm mistaken and today is your turn to be king of the world.

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ghettosynth wrote:Because I want to, I believe that's all that is necessary. Unless I'm mistaken and today is your turn to be king of the world.
Sure, so what is your advice to the OP who wants D50 emulation inside his computer?

I mean, if its a dated rompler with shit filters.

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Numanoid wrote:
fmr wrote:What if it breaks down? Or if something fails? It is an old machine, after all.
Then you go classy and get the card for the V-Synth 8)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-V-Synth- ... 27ec111df2
Or get one and sample it :wink:

It's cheaper, allows you to create infinite variations using the sample engine, and you can use several instances, instead of just one :hihi:
Fernando (FMR)

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Numanoid wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:Because I want to, I believe that's all that is necessary. Unless I'm mistaken and today is your turn to be king of the world.
Sure, so what is your advice to the OP who wants D50 emulation inside his computer?

I mean, if its a dated rompler with shit filters.
You are right, i guess 99% of the people here raving about D50 would use it a hour maybe and then move on. :)
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