Nobody appreciates small time electronic music makers/electronic musician for most is a lonely life

[AudioPhile2]

Are you joking?

Didn't realize fmr was pulling an Iago.

I admire a person who can keep two books open at once.

[t3toooo]

Speaking about the term "EDM" and it's conjunction to dance.

Well,most if not all "EDM" that you can listen to on the profit festivals on the radio TV or anywhere is a generic 4/4 kickdrum,the standard supersaw and variations and the polished voices and one repeating form that seems to exist everywhere.

Almost no off beats,swing most of the time,sounds quantized,no notes in between.
Off beat notes are defining the swing and last but not least something that could be called a groove.

The main body of music consists and define itself with those notes in between.
That's the fun,you can go further and call this interpretation if you're playing it because only playing can give you that kind of information.
It must not be complicated.

i consider myself a musician (well not only a musician anymore) i can't find anything like this in the commercial music atm.

For a while i had depressions about it but i eventually got around to not to care anymore.

Another overlooked aspect seems production quality,i separate this from the music itself since this is the "transport vehicle".

Most commercial music,nevertheless, is well produced.

[foosnark]

[ghettosynth]

Speaking about the term "EDM" and it's conjunction to dance.

Well,most if not all "EDM" that you can listen to on the profit festivals on the radio TV or anywhere is a generic 4/4 kickdrum,the standard supersaw and variations and the polished voices and one repeating form that seems to exist everywhere.

No, that's simply not true. Certainly it's true for what you hear at the big festivals, at least on the main stage, hence the origins of the term. But at other stages and certainly at other events, that's not true at all.

Almost no off beats,swing most of the time,sounds quantized,no notes in between.
Off beat notes are defining the swing and last but not least something that could be called a groove.

Yes, that's nuprogressive and friends, but that's not all of EDM, not even close.

This is why I take a bit of offense at the misappropriation of the term because it causes so much confusion as to what we're talking about.

[t3toooo]

Speaking about the term "EDM" and it's conjunction to dance.

Well,most if not all "EDM" that you can listen to on the profit festivals on the radio TV or anywhere is a generic 4/4 kickdrum,the standard supersaw and variations and the polished voices and one repeating form that seems to exist everywhere.

No, that's simply not true. Certainly it's true for what you hear at the big festivals, at least on the main stage, hence the origins of the term. But at other stages and certainly at other events, that's not true at all.

Well where i live it is simply the truth.
I wasn't talking about small festivals which are more than rare,i'm talking about where the money is floating.

Almost no off beats,swing most of the time,sounds quantized,no notes in between.
Off beat notes are defining the swing and last but not least something that could be called a groove.

Yes, that's nuprogressive and friends, but that's not all of EDM, not even close.

This is why I take a bit of offense at the misappropriation of the term because it causes so much confusion as to what we're talking about.

I like to follow you but the term "EDM" as i know is basically a 35 year old pattern repeated over and over.
Ok that is harsh, ,nah "EDM"? ask anybody around where i live to get an answer what it "should be".

I could argue about what is "classic" music,Bach wasn't a classic musician.
Beethoven can be considered as "classic" but it ain't the same in the "electronic dance music" world.

[ghettosynth]

Speaking about the term "EDM" and it's conjunction to dance.

Well,most if not all "EDM" that you can listen to on the profit festivals on the radio TV or anywhere is a generic 4/4 kickdrum,the standard supersaw and variations and the polished voices and one repeating form that seems to exist everywhere.

No, that's simply not true. Certainly it's true for what you hear at the big festivals, at least on the main stage, hence the origins of the term. But at other stages and certainly at other events, that's not true at all.

Well where i live it is simply the truth.
I wasn't talking about small festivals which are more than rare,i'm talking about where the money is floating.

You said "anywhere", so that would include small festivals. That's the issue with making absolutist statements. If I recall, you live in Munich, yes? If you can't find music outside of nuprogressive in Munich then it's not because it's not there.

Almost no off beats,swing most of the time,sounds quantized,no notes in between.
Off beat notes are defining the swing and last but not least something that could be called a groove.

Yes, that's nuprogressive and friends, but that's not all of EDM, not even close.

This is why I take a bit of offense at the misappropriation of the term because it causes so much confusion as to what we're talking about.

I like to follow you but the term "EDM" as i know is basically a 35 year old pattern repeated over and over.

Like Jazz standards, or most pop songs? Seriously, that's all you have to say about the vast breadth of musical expression that EDM covers? Supersaws are a relatively recent phenomenon.

Ok that is harsh, ,nah "EDM"? ask anybody around where i live to get an answer what it "should be".

No, it's simply ignorant. I don't think that most KVR readers have any significant connection to EDM. If you can't find groove, swing, off grid notes, varying forms, odd time signatures, then you just lack exposure.

[t3toooo]

I'm not going to knockabout accusations.


I was talking about the general term "EDM".

I know some people taking those terms accurately religiously and it seems i'm disrespectful,i'm not.
I try to describe my point.

Nearly all those electronic music terms are nothing but useless garbage.

I could argue,well this house track is too slow and i should remove the annoying off beat hi-hat and speed it up.
Ohh,look now i've made an techno track...


I much rather prefer to avoid those terms altogether and coming to an artists level.

Most of the terms for any music were invented in the 80's, i guess.
The term "Heavy Metal" was invented after the music was already born and many people jumped on this train but at a high cost.
Now instead creating an own style or expanding a style using different influences people began to play faster and "better" metal but this intention killed the music lot of times.

Same with musicians,"this guitar player plays better than the other" and so on.
No talking about the whole band anymore about the composition, the engineering.
Well that's mostly true for musicians i noticed because most people give a rat ass about "playing faster and more virtuous".



There is one major problem with all of those festivals and not only there,everywhere,if you want to play there you need to define yourself using one of those boring useless terms.
Could be the booking like your music but as it happens they won't choose you because at this very evening they play "another style".

[robenestobenz]

@ghettosynth I don't mean this in an adversarial way at all, but as I have some admittedly quite rigid constraints around what I would call EDM, which seem to broadly line up with others', could you post some examples?

[ghettosynth]

I
I could argue,well this house track is too slow and i should remove the annoying off beat hi-hat and speed it up.
Ohh,look now i've made an techno track...

Like I said, I don't think that you really get it.

Most of the terms for any music were invented in the 80's, i guess.

Hardly.

There is one major problem with all of those festivals and not only there,everywhere,if you want to play there you need to define yourself using one of those boring useless terms.

All you need to play at those festivals is money. Paris Hilton played at one of them.

It's not any more of a major problem than it is in any other genre. If you don't play the style that the audience paid to see, then they don't want to book you. The labels are useful for everybody because they communicate the style. This is true for pretty much every single music genre.

Even big name acts face this problem, ask Rick Nelson about it. You are oversimplifying EDM to meet your agenda.

[ghettosynth]

@ghettosynth I don't mean this in an adversarial way at all, but as I have some admittedly quite rigid constraints around what I would call EDM, which seem to broadly line up with others', could you post some examples?

In one of these threads? No, waste of my time. If you really want to learn about EDM, get off of KVR.

[Functional]

Think she never said that she can't appreciate EDM or that EDM can't have artistic value. Just most of it doesn't because it's more about building a house rather than designing & building a house.

Though I really wish term "EDM" would be clarified - does it cover mostly mainstage genres or does it cover stuff like chicago house, dubtechno, minimal techno etc. Think there is a fine line between Sandwell District and Tiesto or any other mainstage name.

Because honestly, even though I can't claim what is art or is not, I still think that most if not all of the stuff at Tomorrowland (for example) has very little to do with art as I see it

She didn't say most EDM doesn't have artistic value. She said *some* of it is not art at all, because it's made for dancing, with no regard for music qua music. What could be more arrogant than this? That's quite a claim to be made about a genre from which many find joy. But then, maybe she is the God-like figure that can make such pronouncements.

I say keep the definition of art open. You might think that's what you're doing. But EDM fans who find meaning in this stuff, no matter how much design went into it, would say you're not.

See the thing is, our brains can find literally anything out of anything. Find a group of people, give them threw pairs of stockings and ask them to compare them. Voila, suddenly you have a group of people under the belief that you have threw different kind of stockings (which they are not) and making serious comparison between them. This one is kind of soft compared to these etc.

See, the mainstream audience works mostly the same way. That's how mainstream music is being sold, that's what mostly makes it mainstream. There are variations of this (eg. lyrics that most can relate to in alternative rock or the punkpop scene, compared to mainstage EDM where you mostly want just something catchy, be it the bassline or the melody). The same audience can find a huge list of differences between tunes that have almost identical framework. It's not just ultra-quantized 4/4 rhythm, that's mostly the "utilitarian" function I guess fmr was referring to. That's a huge fundament of many scenes as much as the certain BPM which is ideal for dancing. I'm talking about the actual structure, where you mostly have a set of ideas that are rehashed between the songs. To someone who isn't really involved with music more than the top10 fads (for example), it's not something they can recognize and instead they come up with meaningless differences (as we see it...) that I guess they see significant.

So when you think about it this way, it's hard to see any room for anyones artistic expression for much anything at all. At least I thought art was more about breaking boundaries than following them.

Shit, this post got long. Anyway regarding the EDM term, I wish it was abolished. It causes too much confusion.

[ghettosynth]

I'm talking about the actual structure, where you mostly have a set of ideas that are rehashed between the songs.

Such as?

[t3toooo]

In one of these threads? No, waste of my time. If you really want to learn about EDM, get off of KVR.

[Functional]

I'm talking about the actual structure, where you mostly have a set of ideas that are rehashed between the songs.

Such as?

Before I continue, I must state that I'm talking about the "bigroom house" scene, which I agree is stupid catchphrase but you should get it. So are you really interested in hearing that because I'm a huge fan of EDM, so I know the distinction

[Functional]

In one of these threads? No, waste of my time. If you really want to learn about EDM, get off of KVR.

I can help you. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uskxAfGkQpI

Only thing that would be hard is to find something outside of 4/4, which can be criticized but tbh, I don't really care