Nobody appreciates small time electronic music makers/electronic musician for most is a lonely life

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Functional wrote: See, the mainstream audience works mostly the same way. That's how mainstream music is being sold, that's what mostly makes it mainstream. There are variations of this (eg. lyrics that most can relate to in alternative rock or the punkpop scene, compared to mainstage EDM where you mostly want just something catchy, be it the bassline or the melody). The same audience can find a huge list of differences between tunes that have almost identical framework. It's not just ultra-quantized 4/4 rhythm, that's mostly the "utilitarian" function I guess fmr was referring to. That's a huge fundament of many scenes as much as the certain BPM which is ideal for dancing. I'm talking about the actual structure, where you mostly have a set of ideas that are rehashed between the songs. To someone who isn't really involved with music more than the top10 fads (for example), it's not something they can recognize and instead they come up with meaningless differences (as we see it...) that I guess they see significant.
So, if I understand you properly, you are essentially saying that EDM only is referring to mainstream EDM styles and artists; basically anything from pop, big rewm hows, and god only knows what else, but as long as it's 4/4 quantized, polished crap?
To me, that seems a bit narrow minded, first of all, you now categorize all artists that are part of a genre under the EDM umbrella as garbage. There are artist who may be EDM - as in they are ELECTRONIC MUSIC MAKERS with a DANCEable beat or rhtyhm, that still do more interesting stuff than the tosh you hear on the radio.
I mean, it's in the name of it that makes it sound so broad and "umbrella"-like. Electronic: As in, it is made from electronic means, whether it has an electronic sound, made from a synthesizer, or whatever, so long as the sound is electronic sounding and not organic. Dance; as in, the music has a recognizable, dance-able rhythm or beat to it, and Music: as in, not specific to, but encapsulating all. It goes in a hierarchy her for to even be defined as EDM.
First check: Is it electronic sound? No? Than it's not EDM. If yes, second check: Is it dance-able either in rhythm or beat? No? Then it's not EDM. If yes, third check: Is it music? As in a broad term, whether it's sung, or instrumental, whether it's mainstream or it's underground, whether it's dubstep or ambient house, is it music? If yes, what genre would it fall under?

To me, it makes sense, logical sense, that EDM is just an umbrella to cover all electronic dance genres. Makes sense to me.

By your strict definition, suddenly my music doesn't fall under it, which is odd, since it is very electronic, and sure it mixes things up more than your average Joe-vicii, it's not exactly the pinnacle of originality either. On the other hand, my music also often times takes from EDM ideas but is not very dance-able. With a more lose "umbrella" to define it: as in, if I wanted to sell this music at a store, I would not categorize the latter style of tracks I do to be "EDM" even if it has a 4/4 beat, the instrumentation, production, and writing of it would more place it under a different genre.
Going back to the example of the Combichrist songs I posted, while electronic indeed, their use of Unison voices and detuning on their synths, mixed with screamer vocals and dirtier processing of the music gives it a more rock/industrial feel than an EDM feel. When I put Combichrist on, it's not to dance. I wouldn't play Combichrist at a club, this would chase off everyone by the angry man screaming at them in the music. I put it on to throw up the fuckin' horns (actually, seriously speaking it's good MMO grinding music, but that's unrelated)

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Functional wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
Functional wrote: I'm talking about the actual structure, where you mostly have a set of ideas that are rehashed between the songs.
Such as?
Before I continue, I must state that I'm talking about the "bigroom house" scene, which I agree is stupid catchphrase but you should get it. So are you really interested in hearing that because I'm a huge fan of EDM, so I know the distinction
Thanks for the clarification, no, don't bother.

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Lol ntom, the EDM term should be abolished was bit off context (my fault). I'd had quoted ghettosynth but I'm on phone and it is painful to do that after initial quote. So no, that's not how I perceive EDM, it's rather the way people use the term EDM which bothers me. Especially the ones that know little of it's content.

It's bit like socialism, it's an umbrella term for a set of ideologues yet for certain bunch it means totalitarian state that will tax you even for breathing.

So I was rather sarcastic there.

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Functional wrote:
t3toooo wrote:
ghettosynth wrote: In one of these threads? No, waste of my time. If you really want to learn about EDM, get off of KVR.
:dog:
I can help you. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uskxAfGkQpI

Only thing that would be hard is to find something outside of 4/4, which can be criticized but tbh, I don't really care
I agree, I've posted at length as to the value of 4/4, there are other examples, but so what?

To be clear, I COULD post links all afternoon, but it's a waste of my time. Those that think that all EDM is the same should post links to what they think are the best examples of genres that they know.

What I've seen consistently in KVR is that the complainers don't generally know EDM and they aren't really interested in knowing more. They just want to bitch. So, if I'm wrong, they'll be able to post the same tracks that I could post and they'll be able to talk about them musically in a way that defends their own perspectives.
Last edited by ghettosynth on Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ghettosynth wrote:
Functional wrote:
t3toooo wrote:
ghettosynth wrote: In one of these threads? No, waste of my time. If you really want to learn about EDM, get off of KVR.
:dog:
I can help you. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uskxAfGkQpI

Only thing that would be hard is to find something outside of 4/4, which can be criticized but tbh, I don't really care
I agree, I've posted at length as to the value of 4/4, there are other examples, but so what?

To be clear, I COULD post links all afternoon. But it's a waste of my time. Those that think that all EDM is the same should post links to what they think are the best examples of genres that they know.

What I've seen consistently in KVR is that the complainers don't generally know EDM and they aren't really interested in knowing more. They just want to bitch. So, if I'm wrong, they'll be able to post the same tracks that I could post and they'll be able to talk about them musically in a way that defends their own perspectives.
Totally agree with you even with my rather brief experience. It's not even only KVR, rather most forums that do not focus on EDM. Bizzarely though, some imageboards which are known for being brutal, acknowledge and respect EDM genres as any other. They do have internal debates, but for example, they have the standard pleb/entry level/patrician categorization and usually they respect even bizzare genres like brostep within those lines, though it's context based.

Now to think of it, I do wonder what's so wrong with the 4/4 & generic drum patterns? Here's a piece that subjects to those and imo, works perfectly well.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3IgEzWD6XuE

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ghettosynth wrote:
Functional wrote:
t3toooo wrote:
ghettosynth wrote: In one of these threads? No, waste of my time. If you really want to learn about EDM, get off of KVR.
:dog:
I can help you. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uskxAfGkQpI

Only thing that would be hard is to find something outside of 4/4, which can be criticized but tbh, I don't really care
I agree, I've posted at length as to the value of 4/4, there are other examples, but so what?

To be clear, I COULD post links all afternoon. But it's a waste of my time. Those that think that all EDM is the same should post links to what they think are the best examples of genres that they know.

What I've seen consistently in KVR is that the complainers don't generally know EDM and they aren't really interested in knowing more. They just want to bitch. So, if I'm wrong, they'll be able to post the same tracks that I could post and they'll be able to talk about them musically in a way that defends their own perspectives.
I defended nickleback (who the wife likes but I dont) over the same concept. Everyone says how all their songs sound the same is always heard but then the same is true with a lot of music and artists. In this case I brought blues and it fits here, I wont say who but I have friends here and from other forums who feel all blues sound the same.

It's simply going to be a never ending argument, it all sounds the same, sure and if you have no taste food all tastes the same :shrug:

FTR, I would not say that I am or my music is what you would call EDM by any way you look at it but that really doesn't matter much. :wink:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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Btw, this is what dubstep would sound in non-dancing way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3ZmRoopX0s

It just wouldn't make sense in dancefloors :P

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ghettosynth wrote:
Functional wrote:
t3toooo wrote:
ghettosynth wrote: In one of these threads? No, waste of my time. If you really want to learn about EDM, get off of KVR.
:dog:
I can help you. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uskxAfGkQpI

Only thing that would be hard is to find something outside of 4/4, which can be criticized but tbh, I don't really care
I agree, I've posted at length as to the value of 4/4, there are other examples, but so what?

To be clear, I COULD post links all afternoon, but it's a waste of my time. Those that think that all EDM is the same should post links to what they think are the best examples of genres that they know.

What I've seen consistently in KVR is that the complainers don't generally know EDM and they aren't really interested in knowing more. They just want to bitch. So, if I'm wrong, they'll be able to post the same tracks that I could post and they'll be able to talk about them musically in a way that defends their own perspectives.

My face palm was aimed towards your arrogant attitude but i recon that my posts are somehow misunderstood.



Of course i know that the term "EDM" should be used as a umbrella but i simply won't and can't use this term.

Blues might be a good example but there are so many styles alongside Blues that there is enough room to let exist other styles in conjunction too.
Blues can be very varying,fast slow whatever,Blues was always more considered as a feeling and the blue notes.


Why i avoid specially the term "EDM" is because it's packing to much content.The term "EDM" is killing musical culture and is evil.


I could say "BAND" is a term for music and on festivals there is only "BAND" playing,doesn't matter,people are paying and enjoying "BAND"

So lets assume there is a connection with the term "BAND" and everybody is agreeing on certain properties that makes "BAND" something understandable for everybody.

Now,just in case you don't produce music that would fit the term "BAND" but you're also playing in a Band,you are literally f**ked because you are misunderstand.
misunderstood because there isn't any meaning in the conversation.

The same is going on with "EDM".
Ask a person anywhere what he think what EDM would be and you would get the answer "isn't that the sound they play on the big festivals"?
You get the picture.

Now try to convince this person that "EDM" is much more than this generic festival garbage.
It won't change anything,you can celebrates endless debates about "EDM", it is a abused term going to nowhere.

"EDM" generally is this boring commercial tootling garbage that a halfway educated ear just turns off after one second of listening.


That to say,i agree with you ghettosynth i just think this term should be boycotted,or in other word "resistance is futile",you would need to convince billions of people that "EDM" is and can be much more.
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Ehh, the term itself is quite clear, what's not clear is the way people use it. What alternatives would you suggest? We can call everything already by their genres, but EDM is simply that much more easier especially for those festivals who don't give a rats ass about others within the genre. Only way to boycott it is by bitching whenever you hear someone using it.

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That's really nice. Reminds me of Johannes Heil's Illuminate the Planet album, which, really stands on its own as an album. My vinyl is wore out from playing it out. Below are some cuts from the record that I like. For those that never had the chance to hear these playing through 40kW+ of audio power at 5AM, you missed out.

One of the characteristics of this album that I really like is the use of subtle drops. No fanfare, just a drop. In particular, listen to how the main kick comes back in after the second drop in the first track, it's really quite dramatic in the right context. I remember hearing one of our resident star local "epic trance" DJs whining that an out of town guest DJ that played before him, who was apparently, "way more epic", left our resident star with "nowhere to go." That is, he was implying that the only musically useful direction for an epic trance DJ to go, is up. I thought in that moment, you could go down, and then, perhaps, back up, rinse, wash repeat. At any rate, the currently popular in your face style of EDM has been around a while, just in different forms. I only find it interesting when it doesn't take itself so seriously, e.g. Chicago hard house, GhettoTech, etc.

Note: Best played loud, turn your sub on and turn it up now, then move away from the volume control. I don't want you to miss out on the best moments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkhhVU1FJB0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgaITthG6ig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0mzBd81tjU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atQs0Tr68Lk
Last edited by ghettosynth on Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Actually I redact that before I start another 14 pages of debate.

EDIT
per the tracks ghettosynth posted:
I really like those actually. There's a certain warm, crunchiness to the drums. Quite good.

Here's something unrelated to calm everyone down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CySNhHVAokQ

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Functional wrote:Ehh, the term itself is quite clear, what's not clear is the way people use it. What alternatives would you suggest? We can call everything already by their genres, but EDM is simply that much more easier especially for those festivals who don't give a rats ass about others within the genre. Only way to boycott it is by bitching whenever you hear someone using it.
Indeed, I posted about this in the recent thread about Aphex Twin. The term has meant "Electronic Dance Music" since the late 90s. By term, I mean the three letter acronym EDM. The phrase "Electronic Dance Music" as an umbrella term goes back all the way to the eighties in common usage. I find the redefinition by the mainstream as irritating as I found the redefinition of the term techno in the 90s.

Here's some evidence from the SF-raves list.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 0#p5878599

The reason I take so much offense at the redefinition is because it's coming from ignorance of the breadth of EDM. I refuse to adjust my usage.

YMMV.

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Functional wrote:but EDM is simply that much more easier especially for those festivals who don't give a rats ass about others within the genre.

Can you name a festival?
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ghettosynth wrote: That's really nice. Reminds me of Johannes Heil's Illuminate the Planet album, which, really stands on its own as an album.
\

Aha! Thanks for sharing, enjoyed especially the second piece. Honestly, the way I've learned to attach to music is by listening to it when I'm half-awake. Not sure what's up with that, but for some reason that's the way it works for me.

Regarding the listening conditions, my gear is where I work at and unfortunately one of my monitors died on me anyway, so had to spoil it with a pair of decent Poland[sic] cans.
I remember hearing one of our resident star local "epic trance" DJs whining that an out of town guest DJ that played before him, who was apparently, "way more epic", left our resident star with "nowhere to go." That is, he was implying that the only musically useful direction for an epic trance DJ to go, is up. I thought in that moment, you could go down, and then, perhaps, back up, rinse, wash repeat.
Yeah. Honestly, epic trance in terms of structure is so boring that you pretty much have to lock your way of thinking into that kind of mode.
I only find it interesting when it doesn't take itself so seriously, e.g. Chicago hard house, GhettoTech, etc.
Reminds me of Daniel Wang, one of the first "not so serious business" types of edm artists I discovered. Mind you, I'm young (little over 20), so I unfortunately didn't get to experience the good stuff

Btw, Heil reminds me of Vatican Shadow somehow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1bEHdPfBCA

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ghettosynth wrote: The reason I take so much offense at the redefinition is because it's coming from ignorance of the breadth of EDM. I refuse to adjust my usage.

YMMV.
The same happened with Hip Hop and worst the modern RnB.


I remember Richard D James (Aphex) hated the term IDM.


So speaking about the "wrong",that's why i think it's time going back to an artists style where a name is a style,the name of an artist.


@Functional

After thinking about it.
To state "EDM" would be much more convenient and easy for the festivals to give it a "broader musical spectrum" is just hilarious.
That would be the opposite of what gettosynth is saying.

Since the thread title "Nobody appreciates small time electronic music makers",EDM in the 90's was just like that,a rather small world wide community commercially ignored to death,usually recognized by peoples taking pills and whatnot.

But at this time it was possible to create different styles which eventually went into genres if you were good.
Today it is the opposite,the genre is invented and peoples chosen by the style.

So, no,it was not "always like that".
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