How long until you can play effortlessly?

[neptunes_ruby]

Hello. I started the learning process of playing a keyboard within the past two months. I've always wanted to play the keyboard since I was a kid, and therefore I'm very interested in playing the instrument comfortably.

My question isn't necessarily "how long do I have to practice until I get good", because that is subjective to the individual, but how long were you playing for until you were "fluent" (for lack of a better word)?

Thanks!

[tehlord]

3-5 years maybe. 10 years if you want to be really good.

[JumpingJackFlash]

How long until you can play effortlessly?

It depends on many factors; the individual, how long (and how efficiently) you practice, what teacher you have (if any), how much experience you have (on other instruments for example), the music you wish to play, and what exactly you mean by "effortlessly" (or "fluent").

A gifted individual with a good teacher will become proficient a lot sooner than a self-taught amateur with little previous knowledge.

Likewise, it's going to take someone a lot less time to master simple music than highly complex virtuoso stuff. - Even someone who has been playing for years might still not be able to play the latter "effortlessly", not without practice anyway.

[neptunes_ruby]

3-5 years maybe. 10 years if you want to be really good.

Thanks for the reply.

How long until you can play effortlessly?

It depends on many factors; the individual, how long (and how efficiently) you practice, what teacher you have (if any), how much experience you have (on other instruments for example), the music you wish to play, and what exactly you mean by "effortlessly" (or "fluent").

A gifted individual with a good teacher will become proficient a lot sooner than a self-taught amateur with little previous knowledge.

Likewise, it's going to take someone a lot less time to master simple music than highly complex virtuoso stuff. - Even someone who has been playing for years might still not be able to play the latter "effortlessly", not without practice anyway.

I think it provides for an interesting discussion too. I'd define effortlessly as someone who has a full understanding of the concepts of music theory, and to put it to use in the practice of composition. Aside from that, I believe that someone with proficient knowledge in playing the keyboard would be able to distinguish tones by ear - especially while listening to a song.

And I'm aware that there are diminishing returns likewise with any other skill set or talent. My question can too be rephrased to such as asking when everyone starts to see these diminishng returns as well.
I don't have an instructor unfortunately, but I think I'm blessed with many resources to which I can use to study playing.

[arkmabat]

It took me a good 5 years till I was comfortable with the drum set. I'm working on guitar and keyboard now.

[JumpingJackFlash]

I'd define effortlessly as someone who has a full understanding of the concepts of music theory, and to put it to use in the practice of composition. Aside from that, I believe that someone with proficient knowledge in playing the keyboard would be able to distinguish tones by ear - especially while listening to a song.

But all those are different fields; theory, composition, aural... Obviously some amount of overlap is going to be helpful (and unavoidable), but it is entirely possible to be a great performer without necessarily having a great deal of expertise in the other fields (and vice versa).

I just remembered a pianist I once knew; he had an amazing ability to be able to sight-read anything, and play it flawlessly almost straight away. In terms of classical-type pieces, nobody made it look more "effortless" than he. But yet, when confronted with a jazz-type piece with just a sketch of chord symbols to improvise over, he was like a fish out of water. He couldn't do it, it just wasn't his thing at all. Other people can be the other way around.

Almost nobody is going to be great at everything; even within a relatively narrow field, we all have different strengths and weaknesses.

[tehlord]

Agreed.

I think I got to grade 6 or 7 when I used to have lessons so firmly in the 'competent' camp, but I could never, ever sight read. Just couldn't do it, not even grade 1.

What I can do is listen to music and then start to play it back, it's just a different skillset.

[neptunes_ruby]

I'd define effortlessly as someone who has a full understanding of the concepts of music theory, and to put it to use in the practice of composition. Aside from that, I believe that someone with proficient knowledge in playing the keyboard would be able to distinguish tones by ear - especially while listening to a song.

But all those are different fields; theory, composition, aural... Obviously some amount of overlap is going to be helpful (and unavoidable), but it is entirely possible to be a great performer without necessarily having a great deal of expertise in the other fields (and vice versa).

I just remembered a pianist I once knew; he had an amazing ability to be able to sight-read anything, and play it flawlessly almost straight away. In terms of classical-type pieces, nobody made it look more "effortless" than he. But yet, when confronted with a jazz-type piece with just a sketch of chord symbols to improvise over, he was like a fish out of water. He couldn't do it, it just wasn't his thing at all. Other people can be the other way around.

Almost nobody is going to be great at everything; even within a relatively narrow field, we all have different strengths and weaknesses.

You bring up a good point. Everyone reads and adjusts to playing music differently, just in the way that no two musicians are alike. I'd believe that somebody who is well-versed in playing an instrument should be able explain theory, compose, and aurally identify a track...but not necessarily have to translate it. For example, I'd never tell somebody to compose a drum pattern then write it out as sheet music, nor would I expect them to do this. But what I believe would identify a talented instrumentalist (I've played the drums since 4th grade) is being able to snap into playing like its a sixth sense.

I'm trying to learn the keyboard because (with the exception of the drums), it is an instrument that can translate to any pitch-based instruments as well. I struggle with coming up with anything more than basic melodies and chords because my knowledge within theory and a keyboard/piano is limited at the moment.

[rod_zero]

I been taking classes for about one year and a half and I am not near to be capable, so maybe 3 years minimum.

[AudioPhile2]

My main instrument is guitar. It took me a decade to know all the basic chords, as well as their variants, the blues scale in any key, what chords go with what chords in what order, etc. Now I can learn a pop song by ear within minutes. Not bragging; that's easy once you get the hang of it.

Practice, practice, practice.

[thecontrolcentre]

Put in 1000 hours of serious practise and you'll get there.

[pljones]

Lots of good thoughts already here. It took me about six years drumming before I felt comfortable doing pretty simple "rock-style" stuff. Throwing in occasional fills at appropriate times without collapsing. Nothing flash. I don't call this effortless, as it's not what I want to be doing -- I want to be playing much better and that needs far more effort, some of what I want to be playing is still beyond me: I can think it and not co-ordinate it. I had a few weeks of lessons, without which I'd not have really had any starting point - I'd say they were "essential but not sufficient" for where I want to get to. But I now just can't put in the hours of dedicated practise... I'm too lazy and spend the time jamming online and having fun: I progress but much more slowly.

[rockstar_not]

Malcom Gladwell, in Outliers, claims it takes roughly 10,000 hours of practice/work/etc. to become expert at just about anything. He cites many different examples. Not necessarily deep research, but quite a thought provoking book.

[jancivil]

There is no answer for everybody. I was motivated at one time to obtain better keyboard facility, but it never happened for a lot of reasons.
I think I'm not cut out for it and it would be considerably more pain for me than for some others.
OTOH, I took to drum kit as a child, in a very short period.

I started with no kind of ear at all, but by fifteen I was transcribing some pretty cute things. I don't know how much of that is even aptitude vs desire.