KVR Audio

crosshairs0809 · Post by **crosshairs0809** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:04 am

Sorry if this is on the wrong forum!

Hey guys question. I would like to setup another computer to my Desktop computer downstairs, however I'm at a bit of a stump. Basically what I want to do is connect my laptop to my desktop so me and a friend can play our tracks together. Yes, we'd like to setup our own band so I can use the desktop with my controllers and he can use my laptop with his controllers at the same time.

I'm at a bit of a loss, though. I have to admit, I don't know much about VST System Link. I've read the manual countless times, but it hasn't really helped me. I've bought a SPDIF cable to see if that helped, but it my laptop doesn't have a port for it. My desktop does, but not my laptop. I've tried connecting my laptop to my desktop through HDMI, but no luck. No luck with ethernet cable either(I didn't think it would work myself, but I wanted to give it a shot).

So the question I'm asking, is what do we need to get VST System Link running so we can get both the laptop and the desktop in sync with each other? Both computers have the same sound card(Yes, I admit as well, I don't have much knowledge in what needs to be done), it just confuses me when the manual talks about in and out ports when I can't find a port on my laptop nor the desktop that suggests in/out ports that I can use. We're at a big loss on how to set this up.

I have tried different solutions like Avatron Software but their product really isn't what I'm looking for. I've tried FXTeleport but that hasn't really helped.

I guess I'm a newbie in this department, however there aren't really tutorials that have helped me and the VST System link tutorial on youtube is for Nuendo, not Cubase, unfortunately.

I hate making professional references because we're just getting started but we want a setup like Kraftwerk. We each have our own consoles(In our case, we have our own tables), with our own equipment and computers. Hopefully that makes it clear what we want to do.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:39 am

You need an audio interface with spdif on your laptop as well.

I'm not sure how you want to use your machines together, but I feel that midi MTC sync might be just as good as I read your description. So midi in/out on both machine are sufficient. I did similar things with a portastudio and a laptop ten years ago.

It will get daws sync - but you have to consider how audio is taken care of - external mixer or you want all audio into your desktop etc. If wanting all audio into desktop you need spdif as well for best solution, not having audio first be analog and then sampled again into desktop(there are delays involved as well, not only audio quality).

crosshairs0809 · Post by **crosshairs0809** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:12 am

We plan on dividing the different parts to each song per computer. What we'd like to do is have drums on one computer and have bass/backup leads etc on another laptop. And in the future I want to purchase another computer for synth/lead sounds so we can have another friend play with us. Then each computer would sync with each other. That way we won't have to have extra long extension cords and connect them all to the main computer. We want more computers so each guy can have his own part and his own equipment.

We're complete newbies when it comes to connecting computers- so I guess what we have to ask, Is this best for us? How can we get this working? Honestly, we don't really have a clue how to proceed, so I apologize if that question sounds like a stupid question. I probably could have named the title "How to sync multiple computers" instead of "Question on Cubase VST System Link".

Edit: To make it less complicated, Kraftwerk really is the best example of what type of setup we want. Each part of the songs are played by a different computer(i.e synth leads on one computer, drums on one computer, etc). Each computer has it's own controllers that we can control the tracks with.

crosshairs0809 · Post by **crosshairs0809** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:40 pm

Anyone have experience with this that could tell us what we need to do to get this going?

I'm looking at Vienna Ensemble. Is this what we need? I'm not looking to spend a lot of money on this - but if we have to I guess we will. Any cheaper alternatives?

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:13 pm

Doing things that way is not conducive to performance. Laptops etc have the power to do it all so linking things together is kind of counter intuitive. The problems youll get are which is the master and which the slaves? DAWs like to work that way. It will take some setting up and youll probably have to leave it configured that way, negating the point of laptops. I know Kraftwerk do it but they have custom consoles with custom electronics. There are various systems to transport audio over network :

http://code.google.com/p/wormhole2/

http://www.fx-max.com/fxt/

As lfm suggested, You might be better off just having all the laptops etc go to an audio mixer and midi sync by network. Youll probably spend more time setting it up than using it.

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:00 pm

I'm using VEP5 on a slave computer and loving it.

There are 3 computers in my system; One is my main with my DAW, 2nd is a slave with other software that is transmitted to the main and finally the VEP5 slave, receiving from both main and the 2nd slave and then transmitting to the main DAW.

All are connected via LAN. To use LAN with this number of computers you need a LAN hub (or switch). I have a 5 port D-Link model. To use VEP5 over LAN you need a hub capable of 10/100/1000.

You can run VEP5 on up to 3 computers. Doing so will require a license for each computer you have VEP5 running.

In my set up i am only using one license due to the way I have it configured.

This setup though is not exactly what you describe you want to do as only one of my computers is controlling the other two.

What you are wanting to do is called collaboration. As far as I know Steinberg is the only one offering this ability; however, others will be soon, like Bitwig for example. Collaboration is where you have two computers, each running the same DAW and connected via LAN or WIFI, over internet. This will allow two or more users in different parts of the world to make changes to the DAW in real time. Nifty!

Unfortunately I am not fully familiar with System Link to be able to guide you further.

I suggest download the VEP5 manual and read up on it to be sure it is how you want to connect and use. You will need to create an account at the VSL website to do so:
http://vsl.co.at/

Going VEP5 is not cheap, all things considered, but worth it, in my case.

HTH and Good luck!

Happy Musiking!
dsan

crosshairs0809 · Post by **crosshairs0809** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:08 pm

Right now as we're just getting started we're not looking for anything professionally. We're just looking for something that will get the job done. is VST Connect performer what we're looking for? It sounds like exactly what we need - connecting directly to each other as the web site states.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:28 pm

crosshairs0809 wrote:Right now as we're just getting started we're not looking for anything professionally. We're just looking for something that will get the job done. is VST Connect performer what we're looking for? It sounds like exactly what we need - connecting directly to each other as the web site states.

No, that is not what you need ..

You need a central clock source. Audio cards (which you said were the same on both, yet one has SPDIF and one doesn't) which you don't say what it is, have internal clocks. However, syncing multiple audio interfaces can be extremely difficult.

Again, someone pointed you at doing it via MIDI. This is the easiest way to get the machines to sync time. Then send the outs from the audio interfaces to a mixer.

crosshairs0809 · Post by **crosshairs0809** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:35 pm

Just checking out other options so that's why I suggested VST Connect pro. Sorry if I sound dumb, but how do I get them going via midi? Is it simple like connecting the two over the same network and setting one as the master and the other as slave and then checking online etc?

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:36 pm

This may be your most viable solution.

Definitely the most cost effective.

http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/rtpmidi.html

HTH

Happy Musiking!
dsan

crosshairs0809 · Post by **crosshairs0809** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:40 pm

hmm, Interesting. I've heard of it but never paid much attention to it. I'll check into it. Thanks!

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:53 pm

Actually, I don't see rptMIDI as the solution since it only does MIDI. I forgot you want different machines playing different instruments.

You will still need a way to get the audio from the second computer to the DAW.

Something more costly, like the solutions mentioned, will be the only ways to do so I'm afraid.

Why exactly are you wanting multiple computers playing just one instrument each?

Rhetorical question cause there are only so many ways to accomplish your goal.

And they all cost a lot of money.

Sorry.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

crosshairs0809 · Post by **crosshairs0809** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:02 pm

Not just one instrument, each computer will probably have 2-3 instruments. I want more computers because I don't want each computer to have to be connected to one computer - a lot of extension cables connecting to one laptop? I'd have to buy a lot of USB hubs and I don't want that - Each computer is a different part of the song(i.e drums on one computer, bass sounds, backup leads on one computer, synth leads, piano, etc are on another, etc). I guess we could use the one computer option, it's just that I'd rather spend money on software that will accomplish the goal and minimize the amount of cables we need, rather than spend money on many cables, connecting all of our controllers to one computer - it just looks ugly to have a lot of cables when we could just get software that we could use to connect multiple laptops together and sync with each other.

And plus if at some point in the future we start doing gigs(which is what our goal is to do in the future) then all those cords will just look ugly to the audience - it would look much cleaner if we had multiple computers, each their own instrument, with the controllers connecting to the laptops that they need to, etc

It's just that - we want to start our own band using electronic equipment instead of real instruments, like guitars, etc. And using multiple computers would be the best option for us.

Make sense?

And yes, I already own a lot of controllers for us to play with, like Maschine, Oxygen 49, ipads, iphones, korg nanokontrols, etc.

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:45 pm

Sure, it all makes sense.

It's just not that easy as you may think.

Cables and wires go with the territory when you incorporate latest technology into your set-up.

Here's a schematic of Kraftwerk's stage set-up. Can you imagine the wires in this set up?

You don't see them because some engineer got very creative in hiding them. I wonder what that cost?

They are working different stations, like you want, but at what cost? And I can promise you it is all linked to one computer to control all at the end point.

Honestly, on a limited budget your options will be very limited.

Based on your description the only option I know currently available is Steinberg's System Link. Again, I am not familiar enough to know if that will even work for your purpose.

An alternative, VSL's VEP5 will also work - with some modification to your plan.

Either are going to be expensive since each system will have to have it's own license.

Trying to sync separate computers will become a nightmare for you unless you have a way to control them. That's where the single computer comes in.

You may want to consider a Rewire system. Again, only know the name. But it may be something to consider.

Also Jack Audio.

I'm just throwing stuff out there in case you are not familiar and can take a look to see if it meets your needs.

Sorry i am not able to be more helpful to you.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:59 pm

Thinking about it. its clear that's its a hardware and software problem. TBH, using USB cables for each controller is probably the way to go. USB cables are cheap, multiple copies of VSL not so. OTOH, all those controllers on one PC may not work properly. Hide the cabling in ducting or whatever. One computer def makes it easier, a mirrored dual screen setup. You might have to try different setups to see what works for you. You could spend a long time planning it. Its worth scribbling a few ideas to paper before doing anything. Kraftwerks system is unique and a tough one to copy on a budget.