KVR Audio

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:48 pm

t3toooo wrote:
matthewjumps wrote:ye i think its a BIOS thing, the windows key should have no effect on the actual boot, and as i said, i keep getting "Disk Read Failure press ctrl alt del" when i turn the computer on, before windows even loads.
FWIW,i think the key does matter.
If you enter the same key on two Windows partitions it won't accept it at boot.
That's why i said you could lend a key (without activation) from somebody trustworthy just to test if it is working.

FWIW, I have two Windows XP installations running on the same computer, both installed with the same key, and both validated by Microsoft. So, the problem has nothing to do with keys whatsover (besides he didn't even reach the part of the installation process where he has to enter the key, and even if it did, the only thing that could happen is Windows not being validated, but would run for 30 days without validation, as some others already pointed).

So, the problem has nothing to do with keys or whatever, I think it has to do with the way he chose to install. He should create two partitions FROM THE DVD, booting from the DVD, and install both systems FROM THE DVD (one and then the other).

Even if, after installing the second OS, the system fails to create a dual boot record (a Master Boot Record), he can create that later, again booting from the DVD.

Problem I see is either you got a pretty large SSD or you will run into trouble later, because of lack of space - two Windows 7 systems in a single SSD seems too much for too little space.

t3toooo · Post by **t3toooo** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:51 pm

I wouldn't say,the key has nothing to do with it.

I explain my reasons why i decided for two different licenses.

First of all,Win XP is not Windows 7 and i know that Win XP is more forgivable in some regards.

I wanted to use two different SSD's for graphics and for audio and i did read the MS forums to yield some information's about Microsoft's EULA and license agreement.
After all i was surprised to find very few or very diffuse information about it,lol.

As i said,Microsoft officially allows one license to be installed on one hard drive on one computer.
Possibly i'm allowed to disconnect one hard drive running always only the respective drive,that's why i thought about building a switch but realized it isn't worth the hassle.

Now,Microsoft isn't that hard,shutting down a OS or popping up messages about "buy another license".
I've always found that problems with Windows are always appearing on unexpected areas of the computer,to say it like this.

I you go the stupid legal way you can be assured to not get bad surprises,beside some usual minor bugs of course but they are most likely not that drastic.

In Germany you are allowed to buy and use (cheaper) OEM licenses,officially be used also for the only one computer that it is installed on,means if your computer is dead you should buy another license.
Things are becoming a bit harder to understand from there so i skipped further researching.

Anyway,there is a "clear" Windows licence agreement.

I assume two Win 7 installations using two different keys are running perfect on one hard drive on the long run simply because Win 7 is a grown up software.

To be certain that it will be running perfectly or not maybe can only be told by a user that is using two different license keys on one hard drive.
Given this information is a 0,01 chance to find until then all "other working methods" are speculations.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:03 pm

t3toooo wrote:I wouldn't say,the key has nothing to do with it.

I explain my reasons why i decided for two different licenses.

First of all,Win XP is not Windows 7 and i know that Win XP is more forgivable in some regards.

I wanted to use two different SSD's for graphics and for audio and i did read the MS forums to yield some information's about Microsoft's EULA and license agreement.
After all i was surprised to find very few or very diffuse information about it,lol.

As i said,Microsoft officially allows one license to be installed on one hard drive on one computer.
Possibly i'm allowed to disconnect one hard drive running always only the respective drive,that's why i thought about building a switch but realized it isn't worth the hassle.

Now,Microsoft isn't that hard,shutting down a OS or popping up messages about "buy another license".
I've always found that problems with Windows are always appearing on unexpected areas of the computer,to say it like this.

I you go the stupid legal way you can be assured to not get bad surprises,beside some usual minor bugs of course but they are most likely not that drastic.

In Germany you are allowed to buy and use (cheaper) OEM licenses,officially be used also for the only one computer that it is installed on,means if your computer is dead you should buy another license.
Things are becoming a bit harder to understand from there so i skipped further researching.
Anyway,there is a "clear" Windows licence agreement.

I assume two Win 7 installations using two different keys are running perfect on one hard drive on the long run simply because Win 7 is a grown up software.

To be certain that it will be running perfectly or not maybe can only be told by a user that is using two different license keys on one hard drive.
Given this information is a 0,01 chance to find until then all "other working methods" are speculation.

Maybe the OP can clarify the situation, but what I understood is that he can't boot his system after resizing the partition, so, there isn't a key problem since he even didn't reach the point where he had to enter the same key for the second time.

And if the key was used, the worst thing that would happen is that the key isn't accepted (when he was asked for it in the second installation) and Windows will not get validated.

Besides, I recently installed a new system with Windows 7 and Windows 8, dual boot, and everything runned fine (until yesterday, because I later updated the Windows 8 to the Windows Tech Preview, installed yesterday the new build, and the update screwed my MBR - but that's another story, that I'm sure I can repair, anyway, since I managed to launch Windows 7 by booting through the DVD). If Windows 7 can get along with Windows 8, I can see no reason why there couldn't be two Windows 7 run side by side.

I think the problema resides in the way he built the partitions. He has to build them with the right size from the beginning, using the Boot/Install DVD of Windows 7. I would start from it, rebooting from the DVD, reformating the disk and create two partitions using the Windows DVD, and then install the first OS and see if it works. Let's see what the OP has to say about my suggestion.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:28 pm

matthewjumps wrote:ok to clarify a few things.

i am definitely going to be doing a dual boot for audio and personal. the personal boot will have programs installed that have background services that use memory and cpu. it will have games, will be used for internet browsing and other non-audio related stuff. it will also have the windows aero settings set to be more visually pleasing, but of course that uses more cpu. on top of that, in the audio OS, i will have several devices disabled in the device manager, for example the windows batter controller, which is known to cause severe dhcp latency spikes every 15 or so seconds. this isnt a problem for personal use, but having a separate audio boot allows me to strip everything back, without having to manually do it every time i want to work on audio.

running separate drives for each OS would be ideal, but im in a laptop and i only have 2 hard drive bays, and i cant afford 2 SSDs, so i have one SSD and one 7200 RPM disk drive. i honestly dont see any reason why a dual boot on the same drive cant be done. you are supposed to be able to dual boot Win 7 and Win 8, or Win 7 and Ubuntu, or even Win 7 32 bit and Win 7 64 bit, there doesnt seem to be any reason why 2 Win 7 64 bit shouldnt work if all those others do.

again i will say that licences has absolutely nothing to do with this. i have made some progress, and this makes me even more certain of that.

i finally got something that works - most of the time. i did a few things that may have helped, not sure which it was, or perhaps it was a combination.

i swapped the drives around in the laptop, perhaps my laptop prefers the boot drive in a specific port. i also used a specific usb port to install off of, i have heard that Win 7 installs have issues on usb 3 ports, and my laptop has both 2 and 3.

so now i have the 2 installs running. i have still had a few issues, but they are highly intermittent. they can be separated into 2 categories.

the first issue is the very rare, "Disk Read Error, press Ctrl-Alt-Del" type. i think ive had this setup going for 2 days and i have had this once or twice. this occurs straight after the BIOS splash screen, and before the boot selection menu appears.

the second type of error has happened slightly more. the "Starting Windows" splash animation hangs, very early on, before the 4 dots appear that turn into the windows logo. this appears after the BIOS splash, and after the boot selection menu has appeared and i have picked the "Audio" boot. for some reason it only seems to happen on the "Audio" OS install, not the personal one. i believe i installed the Audio OS second, but im not sure.

more often than not neither of these issues will occur, and i will smoothly boot into the OS of choice.

Seems to me that you need a batch file to enable/disable the problem devices as required. Dual boot is a sledgehammer cracking a nut. I hate to say it but this is a gaming laptop. They are known for latency problems. That's why your having to disable devices. Any time/money would be better spent on getting another one that dosnt have these problems. I think youre trying to get around hardware/compatibility problems.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:43 pm

Do you have BIOS or EFI?

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:45 pm

I did a Google and :

Can Windows 7 be dual booted using the same installation media on the same hard drive? Yes, it can, but it should be noted that the MBR or bootcfg file will need to be modified to show the primary boot partition first (which all this headache can be alleviated using either VMWare Workstation (paid program) or VirtualBox (freebie)). The computer has to have somewhere to look in order to boot so that change will have to be made.
Can the same COA be used for both installations? No
Will Tom's Hardware forum participants assist in using the same COA on duplicate installations? No, because it technically is in breach of the Microsoft EULA

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/652 ... -dual-boot

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:53 pm

Dual boot with two windows 7 can be done.
I did it but had issues later.
When I backed up the OS and restored more problems.

Prior to Vista there was never any issues for multi-booting
and backup and restore.

So I suggest two drives each with the first partition with
Windows 7.

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:03 pm

ok, to clarify again...

i currently have two working (9 times out of 10) installs of Win 7 on my SSD. installed on two partitions on the same SSD. when i boot up my machine, the majority of the time i get the normal boot selection menu, i chose the Audio, or the Personal OS as i need, and it works fine. i have had this working for 3 days now. HOWEVER, once in a while, i will restart, and I will pick an OS instance in the boot menu, and it will go to the "Starting Windows" splash animation and freeze before the little colored dots start animating. OR, even rarer, i will turn on and see the BIOS splash screen (the first thing you see), then a "Disk Read Error, Press Ctrl-Alt-Del", before anything else has loaded, and that only happened once (or perhaps twice).

no, a batch file is not enough. i have already done that in the past, using devcon.exe and other cmd line utilities to turn on and off devices and services. this is not acceptable because (A. it takes extra time to run, instead of just booting, (B. it cant disable certain things such as antivirus, which once installed dont allow you to disable them via the command line and (C. this method has no effect on the other issues with sharing my Audio instance of Win with my personal one, which is things like bloated registry and other mess from regular personal use. as for the suggestion i should get another, not really helpful, a couple of new HDs is 200 bucks, thats stretching the budget enough right now. i can hardly afford the 2000 it costs for a new laptop.

anyway, the laptop is running a BIOS, not EFI or UEFI

also, installing the instances of Win 7 on their own separate HD is not an option, so please stop suggesting it. the laptop only has 2 HD bays, and i only can afford one SSD, and the other bay has a normal HD 7200RPM in it.

as for the license issues, i dont care about that. if i have to buy a new license thats ok, its Win 7 how much can it cost? currently i am within my 30 days activation period for both installs, ill cross that bridge when it comes to it. and that toms hardware thread you linked ended with the poster saying they got it working, as did the microsoft technet link in the toms hardware thread. also, i actually called microsoft before doing this, and confirmed that i could do it, and they said it should be fine, but if my second activation failed id have to contact them for a second license. which is fine.

oh and for the last time - the key has NOTHING to do with this. my installs of windows are both working, i have used them for 3 days, installed programs to both OS, browsed the net, gamed, played music etc on both OS, and am withing the 30 day activation period. the computer boots up fine most of the time, and both OS start up fine when selected from the boot menu most of the time. occasionaly an OS Windows Start hangs, and ever more rarely i get a Disk Read Error before i can pick which OS. this seems related to the MBR or how i installed the partitions, and most definitely has absolutely nothing to do with licenses.

i think this should make everything clear... i hope...

i know this setup is possible, i know it can work, and it already does, almost all the time, for me. i am not looking for any more advice on other approaches or solutions, i really just need any tips on investigating why the occasional error occurs, and fixing it. it does seem like a MBR issue, but i havent got much of an idea how to sort that.

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:08 pm

for anyone interested, here is a readout from EasyBCD run in the Matt OS:

Code: Select all

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier              {9dea862c-5cdd-4e70-acc1-f32b344d4795}
device                  partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume2
description             Windows Boot Manager
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {7ea2e1ac-2e61-4728-aaa3-896d9d0a9f0e}
default                 {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
resumeobject            {0d10afc6-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
displayorder            {0d10afc7-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
                        {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
toolsdisplayorder       {b2721d73-1db4-4c62-bf78-c548a880142d}
timeout                 30

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {0d10afc7-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
device                  partition=E:
path                    \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description             Audio
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {6efb52bf-1766-41db-a6b3-0ee5eff72bd7}
recoverysequence        {0d10afc8-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
recoveryenabled         Yes
osdevice                partition=E:
systemroot              \Windows
resumeobject            {0d10afc6-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
nx                      OptIn

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
device                  partition=C:
path                    \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description             Matt
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {6efb52bf-1766-41db-a6b3-0ee5eff72bd7}
recoverysequence        {0d10afc4-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
recoveryenabled         Yes
osdevice                partition=C:
systemroot              \Windows
resumeobject            {0d10afc2-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
nx                      OptIn

and here is the same thing from EasyBCD in the Audio OS:

Code: Select all

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier              {9dea862c-5cdd-4e70-acc1-f32b344d4795}
device                  partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume2
description             Windows Boot Manager
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {7ea2e1ac-2e61-4728-aaa3-896d9d0a9f0e}
default                 {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
resumeobject            {0d10afc6-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
displayorder            {0d10afc7-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
                        {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
toolsdisplayorder       {b2721d73-1db4-4c62-bf78-c548a880142d}
timeout                 30

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {0d10afc7-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
device                  partition=C:
path                    \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description             Audio
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {6efb52bf-1766-41db-a6b3-0ee5eff72bd7}
recoverysequence        {0d10afc8-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
recoveryenabled         Yes
osdevice                partition=C:
systemroot              \Windows
resumeobject            {0d10afc6-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
nx                      OptIn

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
device                  partition=E:
path                    \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description             Matt
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {6efb52bf-1766-41db-a6b3-0ee5eff72bd7}
recoverysequence        {0d10afc4-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
recoveryenabled         Yes
osdevice                partition=E:
systemroot              \Windows
resumeobject            {0d10afc2-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
nx                      OptIn

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:21 pm

matthewjumps wrote:for anyone interested, here is a readout from EasyBCD run in the Matt OS:

Code: Select all

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier              {9dea862c-5cdd-4e70-acc1-f32b344d4795}
device                  partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume2
description             Windows Boot Manager
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {7ea2e1ac-2e61-4728-aaa3-896d9d0a9f0e}
default                 {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
resumeobject            {0d10afc6-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
displayorder            {0d10afc7-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
                        {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
toolsdisplayorder       {b2721d73-1db4-4c62-bf78-c548a880142d}
timeout                 30

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {0d10afc7-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
device                  partition=E:
path                    \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description             Audio
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {6efb52bf-1766-41db-a6b3-0ee5eff72bd7}
recoverysequence        {0d10afc8-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
recoveryenabled         Yes
osdevice                partition=E:
systemroot              \Windows
resumeobject            {0d10afc6-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
nx                      OptIn

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
device                  partition=C:
path                    \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description             Matt
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {6efb52bf-1766-41db-a6b3-0ee5eff72bd7}
recoverysequence        {0d10afc4-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
recoveryenabled         Yes
osdevice                partition=C:
systemroot              \Windows
resumeobject            {0d10afc2-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
nx                      OptIn

and here is the same thing from EasyBCD in the Audio OS:

Code: Select all

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier              {9dea862c-5cdd-4e70-acc1-f32b344d4795}
device                  partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume2
description             Windows Boot Manager
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {7ea2e1ac-2e61-4728-aaa3-896d9d0a9f0e}
default                 {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
resumeobject            {0d10afc6-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
displayorder            {0d10afc7-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
                        {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
toolsdisplayorder       {b2721d73-1db4-4c62-bf78-c548a880142d}
timeout                 30

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {0d10afc7-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
device                  partition=C:
path                    \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description             Audio
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {6efb52bf-1766-41db-a6b3-0ee5eff72bd7}
recoverysequence        {0d10afc8-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
recoveryenabled         Yes
osdevice                partition=C:
systemroot              \Windows
resumeobject            {0d10afc6-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
nx                      OptIn

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {0d10afc3-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
device                  partition=E:
path                    \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description             Matt
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {6efb52bf-1766-41db-a6b3-0ee5eff72bd7}
recoverysequence        {0d10afc4-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
recoveryenabled         Yes
osdevice                partition=E:
systemroot              \Windows
resumeobject            {0d10afc2-5897-11e4-b686-8e031161a699}
nx                      OptIn

You want a software solution but its also hardware compatibility. You get a problem with your SSD not being seen sometimes at BIOS level. That happens before Windows is run. That's the clue. Maybe a BIOS upgrade could help. You seem to have multiple problems. There is a known performance issue with the EVO 840SSD but I doubt its related to the problem :

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/19 ... on-the-way

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:44 pm

ye i did the firmware upgrade on the EVO already. i havent had the "Disk Read Error" since then, im pretty sure. now its just the hangs while Windows is starting.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:45 pm

There are known issues with over heating :

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=165023.0

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:56 pm

nope its not that, my cpu used to run a bit hot when i was playing games, but i opened it up and cleaned out the dust in the fan and now i get 50C idle, up to about 65C when gaming, might occasionally hit 70C. but on startup the system is cold anyway, shouldnt be an issue.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:01 pm

matthewjumps wrote:nope its not that, my cpu used to run a bit hot when i was playing games, but i opened it up and cleaned out the dust in the fan and now i get 50C idle, up to about 65C when gaming, might occasionally hit 70C. but on startup the system is cold anyway, shouldnt be an issue.

Well, the SSD and HDD test out ok. There are only 2 possibilities :

1 - hardware problem with laptop - maybe do a full RAM test with memtest 86

2 - dual boot w7/w7 cant work in that config.

matthewjumps · Post by **matthewjumps** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:06 pm

well, several people in posts linked above have got it working, and the windows tech support guy didnt say it would be a problem, and other people on windows forums have said it can work.

so i think i can rule out 2.

which leaves a hardware issue with the laptop. but that seems weird since i have had no startup or disk read issues with my previous SSD/Data disk combo (running a single boot). it ran for years. i have done memtests, cputests, and long seatools disk tests on both HDs, all passed with no issues.

it seems to me the most likely thing is not that w7/w7 CANT work in dual boot, more so that i have either done something wrong in the setup, or the MBR has a problem somehow.

Windows 7 Dual Boot