Bazzism playing out of tempo (attack delay)

[CH4NCE]

Hey guys,

Can someone who have Bazzism please check out if this attack delay is just with me?

This is f**king driving me crazy!!!

Please, take a look at the screenshot attached.

The wave form is the recording of the midi over it. Look at the delay present in the start of the wave form in relation to the start of the midi clip. And the worst, I feel this delay when Bazzism is playing and annoys me like hell.

I love this plugin, and I really wanna fix this without having to sample every single kick I make.

Thanks!!

[kurodo]

Looks like you are not in arrange mode and the recording is actually coming from session mode.


Toggle the arrange icon I've highlighted.

Other than that it could be a latency issue?

[valerian_777]

Out of the blue: Isn't this exactly Ableton's "PDC issue"? (not using Live just heard of this issue).

[kurodo]

Out of the blue: Isn't this exactly Ableton's "PDC issue"? (not using Live just heard of this issue).

Yeah I've recently been using Bitwig which seems much tighter than Ableton but the delay above is far too excessive for it to be a PDC issue.

I'd still re-sample any Kick and trim it to get the attack as fast as possible regardless if I was using Bazzism/Sa Kick or whatever rather than use the plugin throughout the project to generate a Kick.
Even an additional 2ms can mess things up especially if the Kick is being used as a sidechain trigger.

[CH4NCE]

It really seems to be PDC issue, since another plugins like Nexus are having the same problem. And worst every time i stop the recording, and record over it again, the delay is huger, and if repeat this process it keep increasing like 0.5ms every time I record over.

I'm probably getting out of this ship as fast as I can, since I'm producing on Ableton for only 2 months now.

Any suggestions of DAW's who don't have this issue?

[valerian_777]

Chance is big that only Ableton's Live has this issue. I use Studio One and FL Studio currently and in the past Cubase 6.5 and never had problems with PDC. Afaik i only heard of this PDC issue in Ableton's Live. It's unbelievable they still not fixed it.

[kurodo]

Chance is big that only Ableton's Live has this issue. I use Studio One and FL Studio currently and in the past Cubase 6.5 and never had problems with PDC. Afaik i only heard of this PDC issue in Ableton's Live. It's unbelievable they still not fixed it.

I don't think there's any doubt that Ableton Live does suffer from a bit of PDC but I think it depends on quite a few factors.
It seems kind of strange that some of the top producers on the planet have been using Ableton along with third party plugins for many years without too many issues.

Also I think the title of this thread is somewhat deceptive/unfair since the OP now says that Nexus is also suffering from PDC.
Seems like a kick in the nuts for Bazzism like its being singled out.
Perhaps a better choice of title would be "Every Vst I use in Ableton suffers delay" seems fairer?

I still think that the effort of sampling and trimming a kick is 101 stuff regardless of Host software and the effort required in doing so is an essential discipline.

[dave dove]

not pdc
problem with OP's setup

Screen Shot 2014-10-25 at 21.17.46.png

Screen Shot 2014-10-25 at 21.16.50.png

with bazzism in channel 1

dave

[kurodo]

not pdc
problem with OP's setup

Screen Shot 2014-10-25 at 21.17.46.png

Screen Shot 2014-10-25 at 21.16.50.png

with bazzism in channel 1

dave

Exactly but he aint listening so what can you do?
A bad workman will always blame their tools.

[CH4NCE]

Chance is big that only Ableton's Live has this issue. I use Studio One and FL Studio currently and in the past Cubase 6.5 and never had problems with PDC. Afaik i only heard of this PDC issue in Ableton's Live. It's unbelievable they still not fixed it.

I don't think there's any doubt that Ableton Live does suffer from a bit of PDC but I think it depends on quite a few factors.
It seems kind of strange that some of the top producers on the planet have been using Ableton along with third party plugins for many years without too many issues.

Also I think the title of this thread is somewhat deceptive/unfair since the OP now says that Nexus is also suffering from PDC.
Seems like a kick in the nuts for Bazzism like its being singled out.
Perhaps a better choice of title would be "Every Vst I use in Ableton suffers delay" seems fairer?

I still think that the effort of sampling and trimming a kick is 101 stuff regardless of Host software and the effort required in doing so is an essential discipline.

Probably this guys have figured out a way to workaround this.

Of course it will be a better choice of title if I had checked other plugins before I opened this thread. But, before this thread, I was not even aware of PDC issue on ableton.

Probably bouncing all the tracks on 32 bit wav files for the mixdown should be a solution for that, since you can fix the starting position of the files on the grid doing that.

not pdc
problem with OP's setup

Screen Shot 2014-10-25 at 21.17.46.png

Screen Shot 2014-10-25 at 21.16.50.png

with bazzism in channel 1

dave

Sorry to be slow, but I didn't get what you mean man... Could you be more specific? I did that by the resampling mode if it's that what you mean.

not pdc
problem with OP's setup

Screen Shot 2014-10-25 at 21.17.46.png

Screen Shot 2014-10-25 at 21.16.50.png

with bazzism in channel 1

dave

Exactly but he aint listening so what can you do?
A bad workman will always blame their tools.

I'm not blaming shit man, I love Ableton and I pissed of cause I don't know what exactly is wrong. If you f**king know how to use your tools, good for you. And if I was blaming something, Ableton still do have a PDC bug, so what? I have to keep my mouth shut in relation to that in order to not be a "bad workman" in your conception? Pshh... Try to cut I f**king tree with a knife and let's see if you don't blame your tool.
Plus if I want moral lesson's I will probably will be searching for that, or making a topic, like, hey, can you guys give me some moral lessons instead of actually helping with a problem, which can benefit everyone who see this thread in the future?

[dave dove]

@OP

i have just done again using resampling mode
and do not get the problem you are showing
i have also resampled including a convolution reverb on send A
with no problems
Live's PDC issues only generally arise when there are chained tempo synced plugins

do you have any FX anywhere in the liveset you posted pix of?
if you remove all of these except Bazzism do you still get the issue?
if yes it is not Live's PDC issue
it is an issue with either your computer, audio drivers and/or latency and buffering setup

to repeat
if you still get this latency with only Bazzism in the liveset
the problem is NOT PDC

you say you are having same issue with other plugins also
this would point to audio setup issues

hope this helps

dave

[CH4NCE]

Dave, your attack is not even 1ms late? I'm using ASIO4ALL, maybe that's the problem? I don't have a dedicated soundcard.

I didn't have any effects on it.

Yeah it happens with other plugins to, I believe with all of them, not only bazzism.

Analyzing better, is probably latency related to my computer... Like I said i'm using ASIO4ALL at 512 samples and at Ableton I'm using driver error compensation at 1.00ms.

There always this delay unless if I adjust the "Track Delay". But it will only hit right in the grid on the first record. If I stop the recording and record over it again, the delay increases. And if I repeat this process (of stoping the record, and recording over) the delay keep increasing, until I go to Audio Preferences and change my "Driver Type". Then it comes to the right place in the grid again. But if record, stop, record over, stop, record over, stop... Each time I do that, the delay keep increasing, like before, until I change my "driver type" again, and then the delay restarts once more...

Do you ever saw something like that??

[dave dove]

that all sounds very wrong...
i have used asio4all some time ago with no problems
but its been a while since i used windows...

what happens if you remove asio4all and use onboard sound?

delete and reinstall asio4all
do you use any other DAWs?
do you get the same issues?

https://www.image-line.com/support/FLHe ... io4all.htm
http://www.native-instruments.com/en/su ... und-cards/

buy a proper interface

dave

[kurodo]

Try to cut I f**king tree with a knife and let's see if you don't blame your tool.

If a knife was all I had available I'd use it and wouldn't blame the knife unless my bare hands could do a better job.
Just Sayin.

Good luck resolving your hardware issues.

[Ingonator]

Dave, your attack is not even 1ms late? I'm using ASIO4ALL, maybe that's the problem? I don't have a dedicated soundcard.

I didn't have any effects on it.

Yeah it happens with other plugins to, I believe with all of them, not only bazzism.

Analyzing better, is probably latency related to my computer... Like I said i'm using ASIO4ALL at 512 samples and at Ableton I'm using driver error compensation at 1.00ms.

There always this delay unless if I adjust the "Track Delay". But it will only hit right in the grid on the first record. If I stop the recording and record over it again, the delay increases. And if I repeat this process (of stoping the record, and recording over) the delay keep increasing, until I go to Audio Preferences and change my "Driver Type". Then it comes to the right place in the grid again. But if record, stop, record over, stop, record over, stop... Each time I do that, the delay keep increasing, like before, until I change my "driver type" again, and then the delay restarts once more...

Do you ever saw something like that??

The question maybe sounds stupid but is latency compensation activated in the options menu of Live?

If not it could indeed cause problems like you described, also depending on the amount of buffer size used.

Out of the blue: Isn't this exactly Ableton's "PDC issue"? (not using Live just heard of this issue).

With latency compensation activated the known PDC issue is usually related to a possible delay in the automation and not to "normal" audio.