KVR Audio

DSmolken · Post by **DSmolken** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:00 am

I want to take samples of instruments and treat them as oscillators in a synth. I want to both have a big sample map (maybe a couple hundred with velocity layers and round robins), and synth-style controls over things like filter envelope, number of unison voices, detune etc.

The idea is kind of a cyborg version of myself as a bassist, capable of an inhuman level of control over the sound and feats like playing a part five times at once with four of them in the wrong key, then pitch-shifting those four to the right key (that's basically what the "shifty" SFZ mappings I've done with a few libraries are, and the end result is like a very organic chorus effect).

I've been trying, but I have absolutely no idea whether I'm using the right tool for the job, so I thought I'd ask. I've used in Sforzando and it works. It's become my go-to sound for high-pitched plucks. Though it's not perfect - the controls are a bit awkward and some things, like mapping detune to MIDI CC, aren't elegant to implement. I don't think the LFOs and envelopes can be synced to tempo. Plus, I can't put a picture in the GUI, which annoys me. I'm a really shallow guy.

Other than sticking with Sforzando or buying and learning Kontakt, what other options do I have? Synthedit? Taking a software development major into developing something like this for his master's thesis? Other samplers like UVI Workstation or whatever? Or something completely completely different I haven't thought about yet?

V0RT3X · Post by **V0RT3X** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:55 am

You should check out alchemy

RunBeerRun · Post by **RunBeerRun** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:14 pm

Never used Sforzando, that's probably either sf2 or sfz stuff. I would say either a soundfont is your best makeshift free method, or buy a copy protection heavy thing that needs 64 bit memory additions.

As for Synthedit, using samples with velocity layers and round robin would be cpu intensive, but for doing that with soundfonts would not, I don't know if that would solve your specific problems though.

DSmolken · Post by **DSmolken** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:29 pm

I did look at Alchemy Player briefly last year, will have to investigate that more deeply. It can import SFZ files, so I wouldn't have to start all over from scratch.

As to what I'm trying to accomplish... if I knew more about steampunk I might be able to say that it's a virtual steampunk synth with virtual non-electronic oscillators. I'm OK with doing fairly basic things with envelopes, filters, vibrato etc. It'd be great to have all time-related parameters in beats and anything pitch-related in cents, like Kairatune, but that's not a requirement. I don't much care about built-in effects other than filters.

The part where I want to do fancy stuff is mostly control of unison and detune. That area is turning into a bit of an obsession.

Let's say I make seven sample maps for seven layers, each representing one oscillator. I'd like to have a switch for the number of voices, plus width and detune knobs. The width and detune should not affect voice 1 at all, and affect voices 2-3 the most. So, at max width and max detune voice 2 might be panned 100% left and detuned 10 cents, while voice 6 is panned 33% left and detuned 2 cents.

And then I might want to get even fancier and reduce both width and detune for lower notes, which means I'd want the pan and detune to be dependent on a combination of three things: MIDI note number, number of voice, and knob value. This is doable in Sforzando but requires creating a ton of regions, which is what got me thinking I might not be using the right tool for the job, and I don't really know what the right tool might even be.

sam_fishman · Post by **sam_fishman** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:12 am

Could someone tell if there is any dependence between a tool choice and a type of instrument you want to process in this sampler ?

holdebolder · Post by **holdebolder** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:54 am

WHat you are looking for is a rompler.

Kontakt, Halion, Alchemy, Tx16Wx, and the rest can do this.
Good luck with the programming though.

R.

DSmolken · Post by **DSmolken** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:02 pm

Yup, I need to find something that will make programming the width and detune knobs and other parameters a smaller pain, and hopefully let me make the interface more intuitive and user-friendly. I'll take a look at some of these other samplers.

It looks like Synthedit isn't the way to go, and paying a real C++ developer won't be necessary.

Loki Fuego · Post by **Loki Fuego** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:07 pm

I think you might want to try Dimension Pro (http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Dimension-Pro and http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Dimens ... -Designers). You basically load multisamples (or SFZ) and then treat them as oscillators.
Some old articles about Dimension Pro from Sound on Sound:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may06/a ... ension.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun09/a ... p_0609.htm

DSmolken · Post by **DSmolken** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:46 pm

Thanks, another useful-looking option to investigate more deeply. Four "elements" would limit how many things can be controlled independently, but if it imports SFZ I can always squeeze two or more voices into each element.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:45 pm

Maybe look at Reaktor too. Take a look at the User Library on the NI site and see what kind of things people have already put together to give yourself some idea of what it is capable of.

DSmolken · Post by **DSmolken** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:58 pm

Reaktor, now there's something I wouldn't have thought of. This is why I oughta poke my head out of the samples forum once in a while.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:21 pm

Reaktor has some pretty good sampling and mangling capability and is modular so you can hook all kinds of things together.

Best part of it is that even if you don't want to learn it, there is a user library full of all kinds of weird and wonderful ensembles you can download.

MadAnthony81 · Post by **MadAnthony81** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:30 am

In Ableton Live I can do just that.

I can take an audio clip and put it in Sampler. Sampler comes in Suite or can be purchased in alone for use in Ableton only.

It simply is the best sampler on the market still I think. You have control over many functions and parameters including ADSR, pitch, LFO, length, osc, as well as repeat and things like that also in a similar way but not extensively.

It is a great sampler but many of it's paramters cannot be midi controlled which is the only drawback aside from that ofcourse it is only for use in Ableton Live.

It comes in Ableton Suite or as an extra and is actually just called Sampler.

If you want a 3rd party sampler usually Geist goes on sale near Christmas I believe. Geist is a popular and highly revered sampler as well.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:30 pm

Even Simpler is pretty good in that respect, and you get it with any version of Live.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:44 pm

If you use a rack of Simplers you can get similar functionality to Sampler (if you don't have it). Each note (sample) can be assigned to one Simpler, then each Simpler is mapped to a note on a keyboard.

What's the best platform or method to do this?