Propellerhead Rack Extensions ARE Transferrable

[Mushy Mushy]

Is it time to post this yet?

Let me know when you fall flat on your face

[KarmaShaman]

Prop's have stated, several times, that an entire props account can be transferred but that Reason and any rack extensions tied to that account must be transferred as well. Individual rack extensions can not be transferred.

This appears to be misaligned with the commonly held understanding on Propellerhead's position. If nothing else comes from this thread, perhaps the clarification on selling an entire account, including all track extensions, can be made public.

This does, however, contravene the Third Party EULA for non-Propellerhead RE's.

The litmus test for this whole RE policy will be in the management of the Softube Amp Sims. If an end user were to sell their Reason license, and the 'native' RE's accompany the sale, then this model needs to be actioned for Audiomatic & Synchronous. With four Propellerhead RE's being accepted as transferrable, then it will be difficult to enforce a ban on all the other Propellerhead RE's.

[KarmaShaman]

Is it time to post this yet?

Let me know when you fall flat on your face

.. and why would that be, mate? You have yet to offer ANYTHING of substance to this discussion on the service agreement, you rely solely on forum threads to inform yourself, and your only input has been to derail this thread. At least whiterabbit is examining the points being raised. You, on the other hand, appear to be incapable of engaging in debate. Nobody's 'falling flat on their face' (whatever that's supposed to mean', but someone definitely has their head in the sand. What are you doing here on this thread - is 4Chan server down for maintenance?

[chk071]

I think your first ever post here speaks for itself.

Hi all, first post from me. I'm a Reason user (love the DAW, but the company behind it are crooks, more on that soon).

[V0RT3X]

so basically if someone bought a reason 7 bundle on KVR that included the REs they wouldnt get in trouble with Propellerhead?

[KarmaShaman]

I think your first ever post here speaks for itself.

Hi all, first post from me. I'm a Reason user (love the DAW, but the company behind it are crooks, more on that soon).

Yes, that is the core purpose of written language.

I stand by every part of that quote. But thanks for taking time out of your schedule to trawl the archives in an attempt to discredit my character. It's actions like this that divert attention away from the corporations that exploit consumers.

[rod_zero]

And for the sake of tiny tiny valued software, who's going to do that?

This single sentence defines what's wrong with the world today. This whole 'don't challenge, it's all too hard' attitude is what allows corporations and governments to exploit the common person. What's worse is that the culture we exist in gives rise to those who demand that the facts be suppressed, by socially persecuting those who speak out.

The point of the thread is to educate people, and pay no heed to the many 'experts' who will wax lyrical about Propellerhead's terms of service, without ever familiarizing themselves with said terms. There is no 'suing' involved (seriously... too much American TV). The terms are clearly stated. If in fact they are in breach of these terms by actually stating to an end user that they cannot sell their Propellerhead RE's, it's a consumer law matter, and would not even require court intervention.

Nothing's going to come of it you say. Quite a defeatist attitude.

Watch this space. Or better yet, watch the EULA change over the coming weeks.

is not only defeatist but also ignorant, you don't need to sue. You can start by complaning your national consumer protection agency, a process which takes time but it's normally free.


So i think you should stop talking, and get into action: buy a RE and ask Prop to transfer it, if they deny it, then answer them with their own EULA and make clear that if they dont do it you will get in contact with your national consumer protection agency. And if they still don't do it then well get in touch with the consumer protection agency.

Lets see what happens, and it might set a precedent for other developers.

[Mushy Mushy]

.. and why would that be, mate? You have yet to offer ANYTHING of substance to this discussion on the service agreement, you rely solely on forum threads to inform yourself, and your only input has been to derail this thread. At least whiterabbit is examining the points being raised. You, on the other hand, appear to be incapable of engaging in debate. Nobody's 'falling flat on their face' (whatever that's supposed to mean', but someone definitely has their head in the sand. What are you doing here on this thread - is 4Chan server down for maintenance?

Oh I'm sorry, I must have missed the bit where you were able to have your RE transferred.

Why do I care you ask? I just find it amusing when somebody comes in all guns blazing, stating categorically they know more about law than the company they're trying to discredit.

Threads like this happen regularly, but rarely which such unreserved arrogance.

Oh and BTW, downloaded software isn't a good so doesn't fall under consumer law.

[KarmaShaman]

is not only defeatist but also ignorant, you don't need to sue. You can start by complaning your national consumer protection agency, a process which takes time but it's normally free.

Exactly. Consumer tribunals, at worst, might charge a nominal administration fee. Mushy Mushy seems to think that any proceeding that formally disputes a service agreement will turn into a John Grisham novel.

I'm taking artistic liberty there, not actually implying that he has ever read a book.

So i think you should stop talking, and get into action:
buy a RE and ask Prop to transfer it, if they deny it, then answer them with their own EULA and make clear that if they dont do it you will get in contact with your national consumer protection agency. And if they still don't do it then well get in touch with the consumer protection agency.

Lets see what happens, and it might set a precedent for other developers.

I'm ready, as stated previously. I will either sell a Propellerhead RE for $20 (Audiomatic) or buy a Propellerhead RE for $20.

The only flaw to your suggestion is that *my* national consumer agency has agreed that a previous matter of advertising misrepresentation resulting in financial loss (unrelated to this topic) was a valid claim, but they could not act on an international case. I'm just about ready to take that to Sweden's equivalent.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Ok well start suing then.

After you've spent several tens of thousands in legal fees you might actually just think it would have been cheaper to simply forgo the $/£XX valued software.

It's interesting topic none the less.

So if it is defined by EULA that one can sell-resell - how it is that this isn't possible?

MAybe it's up to developer of RE not the Propellerhead itself..

Ok so maybe my tone was inappropriate. For that I apologise.

This discussion has been had before, and the only way for it to move forward is for somebody to challenge in court.

And for the sake of tiny tiny valued software, who's going to do that?

So yes, very interesting indeed. But nothing's going to come of it unfortunately.

yes that's the only way.. when someone does, and wins, will be a win win for all of us. i just hope there is someone rich out there using Reason who decides he wants to do us all a favour one day simply out of goodwill and love

[chk071]

Not necessarily the only way. Someone pointed to a campaign to vote for the reselling of RE's here once. If Propellerhead sees that enough people want this, they might give in. At least that has 100 more times more sense and style than this pointless thread. But the motives why this thread was created differ much to the actual topic anyway, as the OP is just another agitator.

[Mivo]

Oh and BTW, downloaded software isn't a good so doesn't fall under consumer law.

That's a bit of a grey area, though. A possible argument is that it is not the software whose ownership you're wishing to transfer/sell/gift, but the license. In somewhat comparable cases (e.g. Microsoft trying to enforce their previous EULA that you are not allowed to sell a Windows OEM license without the computer it came with), EU courts ruled in favor of licenses always being transferable.

Based on these rulings, it's not unreasonable to believe that companies who sell software licenses, but provide no way of transferring them, would lose if taken to a court. But as you pointed out, that costs money. Consumer protection organizations also choose their battles wisely because they have limited budgets, too.

[KarmaShaman]

Not necessarily the only way. Someone pointed to a campaign to vote for the reselling of RE's here once. If Propellerhead sees that enough people want this, they might give in. At least that has 100 more times more sense and style than this pointless thread. But the motives why this thread was created differ much to the actual topic anyway, as the OP is just another agitator.

Fortunately, I do not seek praise from you or any other internet nobody. I have made no secret of the fact that Propellerhead have defrauded me, so you are hardly delivering any revelation. I will be contacting them one last time to determine whether they will make amends, and if not, it is my intention to pursue EVERY matter they engage in to determine validity. Theo makes a good point, these actions may benefit every Reason user. Its a shame there's an abundance of determined victims who refuse to believe that corporations should be held accountable, and remain fearful of taking action. What a shameful disgrace to civil liberty.

[chk071]

How very noble. Are you sure you don't mistake Propellerhead with Google or Apple?

[trimph1]

Propellerhead=Google/Apple with some here.

Nevermind revenue...