KVR Audio

Astralv · Post by **Astralv** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:59 am

Hey there

I am looking in to the buying Abelton Live. I installed the demo, and I have no idea how this thing works. I am used to traditional linear DAW. Currently I am using Cakewalk Sonar and it meets all my needs. I also have Komplete with Kontact and Maschine. My interest in Abeltom live was because of the Dubstep and Complextro or Glitch styles of electronic music. I have a feeling that these styles were born because of the different work flow offered by Live. I can fake the Dubstep and fast changing sounds in Sonar, but I can not assign different sounds to the pads and play them real time. I could probably accomplish it some how with Maschine and Kontact... My question, do I need Abelton Live with Push? Will it be revolutionary method of making music, or will it be irritating and at the end- I will go back to using Sonar? Thank you.

Touch The Universe · Post by **Touch The Universe** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:01 am

different work flow offered by Live

such as?

Astralv · Post by **Astralv** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:21 am

Such as assigning samples to the pads and then playing melody with different sounds. In Sonar, it would take individual MIDI channel for each sound and there is no way to play melody in real time on all those MIDI channels. Or may be there is... I have not been using my gear because of school, so I do not exactly know what I am talking about.

This example is just random track I stumbled on. It may or may not be made with Live, but it shows the Glitch. Dubstep sound I am talking about. Fast changing sounds in the drop section. If I had to accomplish the same effect in Sonar I would need at least 10 tracks just for the drop. This sounds like it played off pads with different sounds assigned to the pads.

https://soundcloud.com/dubstep/i-could- ... dank-remix

Now this one is even better. I would have to plan each sound forever to make something like this in Sonar. Soooooooo many sounds at the same time- too many midi tracks and instruments, and even than- how would you plan it if you can only record one track at a time?

Also I never used Live, so...

https://soundcloud.com/enter-dubstep

JonSolo · Post by **JonSolo** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:27 am

A lot of that has to do with automation. The easier it is to get to it, the faster you can build the track. I have a number of DAWs and I find that workflow DOES vary, however, you can achieve almost anything from any DAW. It is how YOU are able to work within the boundaries of it, and your creative flow.

Obviously, you could setup various "tracks" in Ableton for samples and things, or you could just as easily do it with a number of drum machine VSTs that exist by importing samples to each pad. Still to build the Dubstep style effects requires automating parameters of whatever synth you are using (and popular controls are Cutoff and Resonance, along with pitch bend and volume for swells). What you typically hear are 1-4 bar segments with elements copied and pasted. It is building those segments that you are likely after, and it is not automatic in any DAW.

Does Ableton enable building segments? Yes...if you know the program and can make it work for your style there is probably nothing that can touch it. Can other programs do this as awesomely? Yes... and if you are more comfortable with them, it will take a lot less time than it does in a DAW that you do not understand.

Ultimately the choice is yours. Ableton takes patience if you are used to a linear DAW (Sonar, Cubase, Studio One). But some who use come to learn it swear by it and never seem to return to their previous DAW. On the other hand, some feel that the music these folks makes sounds more dumbed down than their previous material.

From my signature, you can see I use them all, but for different things. Of course you can Try Live for Free according to the top of their page. Worth a shot to see if you like it.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:48 am

DAW is nothing to do with genre you produce.... Just stick with one daw and learn it dude

Astralv · Post by **Astralv** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:01 am

Thanks for your replies. I do not mind "dude", also I am a chick.

Any way. "What you typically hear are 1-4 bar segments with elements copied and pasted."

Yeah, if you make glitch. And, yes, you can get pretty good at it, but if you analyze it, it would take waaaay too much time to copy/paste all those (unless you randomly drag and drop the samples in to the timeline". Here is another meaning of word "Drop". lol.

I like to assign 10 samples to the 10 pads and play pads in real time. With Maschine, it would not transmit MIDI to external DAW unless it is set to MIDI, in that case, 16 pads turn in to 16 notes on one MIDI channel. I want 16 different sounds, not one sound on 16 pads.

I will tell you- Maschine software is very irritating to me because things are not logical.

I like your idea about using drum sampler software and assign sounds to the drum pads in software. That is what Maschine for, but it does not transmit MIDI when in PAD mode, and in MIDI mode it would not attach sounds to pads. Ugh.

So I thought- I can assign sounds to the PUSH pads, and it would record it in real time? Is there even such thing as recording in real time in Live? I know it has linear view, but I do not grasp the concept. I installed the demo too soon and now it is about to run out and I am still busy.

dave dove · Post by **dave dove** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:42 am

have a look at these:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... doEjjyuQgI

most people end up microediting in the end....

dave

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:58 am

Astralv wrote:I do not mind "dude", also I am a chick.

lol sorry.

About "1-4 bar segments with elements copied and pasted", Live doesn't have alias so indeed it's time consuming. (But doable.) If you use hosts that have alias you can just place them and edit/replace samples or midi afterward easily.

Besides that, commercial dubstep or Complextro songs are produced in precalculated method, modifying key of samples, editing length, laying parts on the linear tracks. And performances that famous musicians plays on the stage with midi controllers are output from songs linearly completed ones. It's true that improvising samples in Live is easy. You're right about that. But I'm not sure it practically contribute to the purpose you are looking for.

My 2cents.

V0RT3X · Post by **V0RT3X** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:03 am

Bitwig might also be of interest because it has a very very similar workflow.

I'm a long time Ableton user and the workflow can use either the clip launcher or you can use it like a more traditional DAW. One thing that is fun, is that you can build your track using the clip launcher and then lay down a basic track structure and then work from there.

One thing i suggest you check out is the clip automation because it makes automating your synthesizer or sounds really easy. I often build a track by using the clip launcher first, then once i have the basics down I'll do more editing in the arrange mode.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:05 am

You don't need to be able to control everything with one controller to make stuff like that. Most likely those songs were made with bunches of different tracks, in the way that you are talking about avoiding. You don't perform it all at once, you build it up bit by bit. Ableton (and Bitwig which you should also consider because it's very similar to ableton) do have a tool that lets you put a variety of sounds on a single track called a drum rack though.

V0RT3X · Post by **V0RT3X** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:08 am

You can really play ableton like an instrument if you set it up so you can trigger loops in each clip. Then you can play it live it like a MPC if you have something like Push or the Launchpad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTx3G6h2xyA

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:21 am

V0RT3X wrote:You can really play ableton like an instrument if you set it up so you can trigger loops in each clip. Then you can play it live it like a MPC if you have something like Push or the Launchpad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTx3G6h2xyA

It's not completely true. The point of that video is how essential the preparing is. If we are talking about triggering samples and applying effects on the fly for performance Live would be wise choice. But if it is about producing a song from the ground that will be another story. Actually he is producing songs mainly on FL.

el-bo (formerly ebow) · Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:28 am

you don't NEED it, but you just might find that it clicks better for you

definitely check the 'mr.bill' tutorials linked to above. if you get a lot out of the free ones, maybe think about checking his 'hardcore abletoner' content. i am not endorsing it (i have not used it), but his free stuff leads me to believe it would be good

also look into the macprovideo and groove3 offerings

i only have a copy of ableton lite, which i am still to learn, so i can't offer much more than that. strangely, mr.bill's videos had the effect of making me want to learn logic to the depths (and with the speed) that he uses ableton

MadAnthony81 · Post by **MadAnthony81** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:19 am

Push is not neccasary.

I have live 8 suite.

If you want a Lite version of Ableton Live maybe you might want to buy something from m audio.com.

I dont know any othet DAW other than Live but here is my shot at this.

The Session view is for mostly midi clips. When you have them all setup in different lanes and you click their triangles you can hit record at the top og screen and record it over to arrangement view.

Double click the rectangles inside Srssion view to get started. Then record at will.

topaz · Post by **topaz** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:06 am

Ableton live is linear, hit the tab key.

session view is for jamming out your ideas, then you record those into arrange (linear) view.

Abelton Live- do I need it?