Slate says Monday for VMR

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I think the mda plugins are only 32-bit. But, they are open source, so someone could recompile them to 64-bit.

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Somebody ported them to x64. I sometimes still use these modules (rarely).
I think they are even linked from the MDA page by now. Else, the links can be found in KVR audio.

But enough OT.
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Anyone finding any issues between VST2 & 3?
I've had several Runtime error crashes using both in Cubase.

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If it's Visual C++ Runtime Error R6025, then the devs are already on it.

If not, send a crash report and Cubase's CrashDumps to the support, please.
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Thanks

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How is this compared to the IK Multimedia 1073 EQ?
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

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v1o wrote:How is this compared to the IK Multimedia 1073 EQ?
Hah, funny... I answered this same question a couple of days ago to a friend of mine through mail. So I can post my humble, personal opinion with a couple of mouse clicks:

NEVE 1073 (3 band EQ):

IKM:
- EQ is frequency locked
- GUI looks like the hardware
- offers different drive modes (MIC and LINE), Preamp can not(!) be turned off (not suitable for usage with a Console Emulation like VCC)
- noise floor is at -80dB to -100dB (decreasing the higher the frequencies)
- MIC mode boosts the output by +3dB (bar minimum)
- frequency plot is not flat on default EQ settings (has a slight LF and HiMid boost)
- EQ has fixed oversampling with a steep high cut filter at 21khz even at higher sampling rates. Shouldn't be noticeable, but this is a known thing of IKM tools
- EQ adds additional harmonic content!
- Gain boosts are not as strong in the HiMid range (+6dB results in +5dB)
- Low Cut introduces strong Resonance peaks!
- Plugin works independent for L and R channel (can introduce phasing issues)


Slate Digital (modded to have 2 mid bands, therefore 4 band EQ):
- EQ is not frequency locked but freely sweepable (but there is a hack active - if you press on the frequencies, it "jumps" to the exact values)
- GUI looks like the hardware
- modded 1073 to offer 2 mid bands
- does not offer Phase Switch!
- offers different drive modes, Preamp can not(!) be fully turned off, but is "barely noticeable" in "Line" Mode (harmonic content way below -80dBFS, planned to be used with VCC)
- noise floor is at -140dB
- frequency plot is not flat on default EQ settings (has a LF boost below 20Hz, and a HF roll off at 10Hhz)
- EQ boost adds harmonic content
- Gain boosts are stronger in the HiMid sections (+6dB results in +6,2dB)
- Q values seem to be a tad smaller than with IKM
- Low Cut at 80Hz introduces also a slight LowShelf
- Plugin fairly mono compatible



Personal summary:
Like with the IKM 81, the preamp if the IKM 73 can't be turned off. So you have to live with a fairly strong harmonic content (and not a nice one IMO) if you want to use the EQ. This is not made for working together with a console preamp (think Slate VCC).

The Slate FG-N is more subtle on the saturation part. As mentioned, it is planned to incorporate VCC into VMR. But the saturation will still add up.

What I like with the IKM creation is the frequency lock. Something that does work with the Slate creation, only with a workaround. The frequencies are not "locked" there (FG-N), but freely sweepable. Then again, if you want "locked frequencies", you basically press on the EQ values and it knob jumps and locks into place. Interesting concept - and the best of both worlds. But I'd love to have a "locked" mode overall. No thinking, always working with hardware controllers as well.

What's surprising, is that the Slate NEVE, while lower in "saturation", adds more bite to the EQ curves compared to the IKM one. The IKM one sounds softer, has wider Q as well. But one thing that is really not swinging with me, is the Resonance at active Lowcut of the IKM creation. While this is a great effect for creating WahWah effects (if it would be freely sweepable), it's adding too much unwanted content in a mix. Here the Slate EQ is better, albeit softer due to an additional Low Shelf on higher cutting frequencies.

The CPU usage is also not to underestimate:
Slate VTM eats with one instance of the NEVE about 5-8% and 174MB RAM - more modules per rack or racks don't matter much. IKM EQ73 only eats 30MB RAM, but 10% CPU per instance. This is adding up quickly.
NOTE:
The CPU and RAM specs in question are based on my Intel Core i7 920 (Bloomfield) with Windows 7. The rig the the person I sent this mail to is an iMac11,3, fully maxed out, with an i7 870 (Lynnfield). CPU and RAM values tested in VST Plugin Analyser, with the Windows Task Manager opened.


Corresponding Frequency Plots to this "mail" can be found (for the time being) here:
NEVE comparison - IKM vs Slate Digital (490kb, PNG, ZIP with LZMA compression)



From a couple of pages back, the THD+N Plots again.
Compyfox wrote:
antithesist wrote:Are you saying the mic and line buttons on the IK 1073 model don't do anything?
Quite the contrary.
The preamp in the IKM versions are IMO a bit too strong for my tastes. And, you can't turn them off.

The concept of the IKM Neve's are, that they are used standalone, and not necessarily "stacked" (read: mixing-and-matching). Due to the fact that you can't turn off the preamp in there (read: there is always a preamp active!). So stacking with a console type emulation would be absolute overkill (and not sound pleasant - at least it didn't to me).

Slate's stab at the Neve 1073 (a modded one even) is more subtle in terms of the preamp, because one of the concepts is to maybe use it in combination with VCC Brit N's channel. (as mentioned earlier, there ARE plans for a VCC module in VMR).

Though I filed FR'S several times by now to maybe offer a "stronger standalone" preamp mode, and a "VCC preamp" mode for those of us that do not have VCC, neither need it. (with a small button at the bottom of the module, in the black box where the rack name resides).


Here is a comparison of the THD of the IKM EQ73 and Slate VMR FG-N:

IKM EQ73 (Preamp Setup to Line, 0dB Gain)
Image

In theory, you even have to pull down the Input Gain by at least 10dB or utilize proper gain staging. Here is the IKM EQ73 again, this time the Line signal pulled down by about 10dB
Image


In direct comparison:

Slate FG-N (basic preamp setup, 0dB Gain)
Image

And just to see how Slate VCC Channel (Brit N) stacks with VMR (FG-N)
Image

Blue is VCC -> VMR, Red is just VMR.

If you compare that plot with the IKM EQ73 plot... stacking doesn't make sense. I tried it, doesn't sound very nice IMO. So as usual, the devil lies in the details.

BTW: VCC stacks just as well with Nomad Factory's British NEQ (1081), but not so well with IKM's EQ81.


And this frequency plot shows what's happening while stacking VCC (Brit N) with VMR (FG-N)
Compyfox wrote:Though a warning. Those that want to stack VCC Brit N with VMR FG-N, need to pull up the LC so that it's at bar minimum slightly out of the "off" zone (that's about 30Hz).

Else you get an EQ boost of about 5-7 dB (lowshelf) around 35-40Hz.
Image

Routing: VCC Brit N -> VMR FG-N

The lightest line is without any low cut in VMR (HPF)
The second lightest line is with HPF @30Hz LC
The dark line is with HPF @50Hz.

Routing of VMR -> VCC results in about +0,5dB to +1dB higher readouts of the lowshelf.


I hope this is suitable enough for a comparison.
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One thing is for sure, no detail will be left out with compyfox :hihi:

To me though, that doesn't mean anything. If I'm going for "that" sound (and let's face it, the neve is probably the most distinguishable eq's out there) I don't want to think about plots and so on. Just does it give that sound.

What I would be interested in is how the scheps compares to either of these. Not sure I remember there being a conversation about that (but I'm sure it exists)

One other note, when I watch that video and dude was playing around with the "n" I had similar thoughts but I actually really like that high end. There is something about the neve high end that is really unique to me. It's too bad URS never kept up with the industry because I distinctly remember my neve version and that particular high end.

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Thanks for the comparison. I understand the Slate plugins have zero latency which is an advantage over the IKM.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

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Oh, I'm glad you brought that up....I didn't know that (but I should have expected it)

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In all honesty, I didn't check latency due to Cubase's built in PDC.

And Logic doesn't have that much issues with latency either. (I ran into RAM issues sooner - I blame it on 3-4 instances of fully loaded Kontakt 5, and 2 Omnispheres in a busy 32 track project)


But... for completeness sake:

Code: Select all

IKM EQ73 (1073)                     - Initial Delay: 3 (low latency mode), 131 (OS mode)
IKM EQ81 (1081)                     - Initial Delay: 3 (low latency mode), 131 (OS mode)
Nomad Factory British NEQ (1081)    - Initial Delay: 0
Slate Digital VMR (FG-N / 1073)     - Initial Delay: 0

Tested at 44kHz / VST Plugin Analyzer sets to that sampling rate on host relaunch
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FYI: Slate just released a beta that fixed the AMD Phenom bug. :)
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell

http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/

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Can someone who has actually bought VMR confirm that there are two ilok activations?

Thanks!
WEASEL: World Electro-Acoustic Sound Excitation Laboratories

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v1o wrote:How is this compared to the IK Multimedia 1073 EQ?
To my ears more smooth also its appears more useful with no locked curves.Whats the point of analog limitations in the digital domain its beyond me anyway!

There its something i find really harsh with Ik eqs especially when u crank them didn't feel that with the Slate ones!

Also the cpu its too much on Ik plugs don't know what methods they use but this VMR thing its really light on processor and thats whats makes plugins nice to work with,whats the point to have cpu hog witch still doesn't sound 1:1 ..

The only thing missing on the VMR its the trim options but i am sure they will add them soon!

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antithesist wrote:Can someone who has actually bought VMR confirm that there are two ilok activations?
Thanks!
While I'm not using 2 activations, my iLok manager shows 1 of 2 used.

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