Slate says Monday for VMR

[hibidy]

Lolz. The difference of opinions is very interesting.

I can't wake to get some java going and re-up this again today and see if what I was so excited about yesterday holds true.

[lacandon]

I don't like VMR on my mixes. There is too much coloring and in all cases I preferred a mix without VMR.

For me the most usable modules are the FG-S (SSL EQ) and the "Revival" which remember me a bit to a Pultec.
The VMR Neve is ok, but I don't think it's better than other emulations. I like the Waves Scheps 73 more because it's not only a 1073 emulation and has a bit more features like M/S.
The FG-116 is not my cup of tea, the FG-401 is ok (I like this more "LA2A" behavior with the circuit 2).

Maybe after 1 year of announcements of the "channel strip of your dreams" I expect a bit too much. There is also some important stuff missing for proper gain staging. But I read that a "trim" module will be added shortly.

After a lot of testing I came to the conclusion that I don't need VMR in my toolbox.

Interesting i feel exactly the same way just the ssl eq and the revival worked but yes too much colouring going on !

[Omkar]

I don't like VMR on my mixes. There is too much coloring and in all cases I preferred a mix without VMR.

For me the most usable modules are the FG-S (SSL EQ) and the "Revival" which remember me a bit to a Pultec.
The VMR Neve is ok, but I don't think it's better than other emulations. I like the Waves Scheps 73 more because it's not only a 1073 emulation and has a bit more features like M/S.
The FG-116 is not my cup of tea, the FG-401 is ok (I like this more "LA2A" behavior with the circuit 2).

Maybe after 1 year of announcements of the "channel strip of your dreams" I expect a bit too much. There is also some important stuff missing for proper gain staging. But I read that a "trim" module will be added shortly.

After a lot of testing I came to the conclusion that I don't need VMR in my toolbox.

Interesting i feel exactly the same way just the ssl eq and the revival worked but yes too much colouring going on !

ah, that helped me regarding the rack issue ...
thats why I feel to have standalones handy as well

no problem to purchase the bundle, but a problem to use the units within.

[Monkberry]

I love the FG-N because of its color and edge. I think that each component offers something special. It's working very nicely for me on male vocals (FG-N / FG-401 /FG-S / Revival) and electric guitar solo Amplitube Fender with a touch of drive on a Strat using the VMR e guitar preset #2 and a little high end rolled off on the FG-N. I have no doubt, VMR is a bargain. Have not tried bass or drums yet but I'm pretty sure the VMR will work well with those sources, material dependent of course. I'm sold on it just for vocals alone.

[hibidy]

I don't understand the objection to color.

@audio deluxe: I understand now. Since I'm also looking into the ezkeys thing, I see a potential of buying the slate, then using the 20 buck off for ezkeys which would make that 29 bucks. Think about it.....I must

[xamido]

Here's the thing, yes it color your sound. But must you use it on everything during mixing? I like Slate approach because they are the color mania, so i know what to expect from their product. I won't use VMR as my only mixing plugin, that would be silly.

The key is moderation, to know when to use character plugin like this or when to use clean plugin. Isn't that the beauty? Even in a hardware based studio, not all track have to go through an 1176 or 1073.

[djscorb]

Maybe it would be nice to have the option or preference to disable certain aspects of the non-linearities etc.

Sometimes the dynamic action on the compressor or EQ curves are what you are after and not necessarily added noise, phase distortion, additional harmonic generation etc.

I think they got this right on the VBC FG-Red. Being able to dial in the tone of the box independently to the makeup gain added more flexibility a faster workflow and really is the best of both worlds.

I didn't try the other units in VMR as I am happy using EQuilibrium and my existing compressors adding saturation when I feel like it's of benefit. I don't need more choices to get the job done but was happy to pick up the free Revival.

Cheers

Scorb

[hibidy]

Ok, so here is something I noticed.

Take a drum track mix, doesn't matter what kind. Put an instance of VMR on it. Add a "neve"

Now, adjust the HS to about 2db. Adjust the HB at 3.2khz to about 1.5 db. Don't do anything with the low mid. Now, adjust the low at 80hz to about 4db.

I'd be curious to hear any and all thoughts about how the a/b goes. I'm getting about a 2db boost on the meters (which seems low to me for some reason) and it just sounds HUGE! I could f... with eq's for hours and not get a sound that good.

Am I just mad?

[budweiser]

Ok, so here is something I noticed.

Take a drum track mix, doesn't matter what kind. Put an instance of VMR on it. Add a "neve"

Now, adjust the HS to about 2db. Adjust the HB at 3.2khz to about 1.5 db. Don't do anything with the low mid. Now, adjust the low at 80hz to about 4db.

I'd be curious to hear any and all thoughts about how the a/b goes. I'm getting about a 2db boost on the meters (which seems low to me for some reason) and it just sounds HUGE! I could f... with eq's for hours and not get a sound that good.

Am I just mad?

No you're not. Ad the fg401 & revival and it's even better. I'm torn because i really don't need a new comp or eq but the fg401 just sounds awsome on everything. Grrr...

[hibidy]

I still haven't tried it with S1 yet (will be interesting to see how that goes ) but so far it works w/o any real problems in bitwig 1.1.1 and Live beta 9.1.7b2

Point being, I'm pretty sold on it. I've already put it to good use.

Some people seem to not like the rack. The rack is EASILY one of the selling points for me.

So, for my tracks (and I personally usually don't have more that 12-16 unless I'm doing multi outs) instead of complicated GUI changing madness, the point is that these are going to be go-to frequently and thus it's all there. One GUI, whatever you want per track.

I dunno how you guys work, but I get REALLY tired of the constant GUI opening/closing so I'm looking at this as a feature.

[camsr]

Yeah, but the rack is only 4 units, and it's only the Slate plugins! And it also leaves a lot of empty space when using less than 4.

[4damind]

I don't think the rack is a problem, I like it
It needs more modules and some of the not so much colored plug-ins like a LA2A or a API. It would be also a good option to allow the user to mix the saturation level (something like a "drive" knob from 0 to 100% for every plug-in and/or for the complete rack).

[budweiser]

Some people seem to not like the rack. The rack is EASILY one of the selling points for me.

For any reason, when i drag-n-drop a new module from the dock in an already populated rack, it tends to slip here and there at first time. Not that easy to put it after the other modules. Am i missing something ?

[Compyfox]

Nope you're not mad, hibidy. This is exactly what should happen.

Maybe it would be nice to have the option or preference to disable certain aspects of the non-linearities etc.

You could take a dive at VST Plugin Analyser and compare VMR's NEVE and SSL with the IKM NEVE and SSL. Just the preamp, maybe the added harmonics on gain boost. But in order to get an IMO "objective" comparison, the IKM Plugins need to be trimmed by 10-18dB (again, i assume a reference level).

Or... take a look at this pack. I take the full blame if the series of tests is wrong again.
IKM vs. Slate VMR vs. Nomad Factory (7zip, PNG's, ca 760kb)

The test chain was:
DDMF Demo -> Klanghelm VUMT (gain at -18dB) -> plugin to test -> THD+N Plot
I tried to be as objective as possible with this route. A full scale test signal showed a too strong distortion for the IKM modules.


The harmonics on the VMR are way lower and less prominent than with IKM's creation, if we talk NEVE. All SSL's don't introduce any significant harmonics. With some fine exceptions.

The kicker:
According to the info I got, the SSL plugin's preamp in VMR was massively reduced prior to the release of VMR with the idea in mind to (again) "mix and match". Another nice "add-on" is that if you boost either the low mid or the high mids between 400Hz and 1,5khz - you get harmonic content. Else, nothing.

The IKM SSL creations don't introduce any harmonic content if a) the dynamic section is turned off (if you don't need it, why should you use it) and b) if the dynamic section is on, but the compressor is set to Ratio 1:1. Else you get harmonic content due to the engaged compressor (default settings!). But if either the dynamic module is turned off, or the compressor at ratio 1:1, you can crank the input gain all you want - no harmonic content. Not even if you crank up the individual bands (like with the Slate Digital creation). You only get the curve behavior of the Black/Brown (4k A series IIRC) and E/G (4k E and G series from the late 80/early 90ies).

In direct contrast, the 1081 by Nomad Factory is also not adding anything unless you engage the Vintage Mode. And the higher the input signal, the higher the harmonics.


So once more, and yet again personal opinion, the Slate plugins as more "transparent" compared to IKM (if we talk Neve), while the SSL's don't give themselves much (with the exception that the Slate creation is adding harmonic content between 400Hz and 1,5khz). So your comment that the non linearities are stronger with the Slate creations, is not necessarily true IMO. At least if we look at the plain preamp plots - not the non-linearities being introduced once you turn up the gain knobs per frequency band (NEVE especially).

If you want a modern EQ where you have control over both the saturation and the added harmonic content on gain boost per frequency - get SlickEQ GE. There are plenty of presets by now that emulate a load of classic consoles. Though I still have to understand the XML list to port for actual usage.

YMMV.

Sometimes the dynamic action on the compressor or EQ curves are what you are after and not necessarily added noise, phase distortion, additional harmonic generation etc.

I think they got this right on the VBC FG-Red. Being able to dial in the tone of the box independently to the makeup gain added more flexibility a faster workflow and really is the best of both worlds.

VMR's NEVE has the "drive" mode for that (to add more content), and FG-401's transformer mode can be turned off to be as clean as possible. The RED in direct comparison colors the sh*t out of the signal. If you want a "clean" RED3/ISA clone, then your only alternative is the Focusrite Midnight Suite. Or something that can emulate a lot of compressors: DMG Compassion, U-HE Presswerk, Klanghelm DC8C-2, maybe TokyoDawnLabs and/or Variety of Sound. Most of the time, you can turn off additional saturation. Else, a compressor already saturates once the signal is being "compressed" (it's a non-linear processor after all).

I didn't try the other units in VMR as I am happy using EQuilibrium and my existing compressors adding saturation when I feel like it's of benefit. I don't need more choices to get the job done but was happy to pick up the free Revival.

Yeah, but the rack is only 4 units, and it's only the Slate plugins! And it also leaves a lot of empty space when using less than 4.

The rack expands up to 5-6 slots once you add more plugins in the chain. Else the minimum size is 3 slots.

I filed a FR a couple of days back, where you could (in theory) load a plugin into the chain. Doesn't even need to be a special GUI for that. Think of the Line6 PODfarm (or was it Gearbox still?) "no preamp" slot, where cables hung out of the rack to show "oooh, no amp head in use!". I think Peavy Revalver also allowed custom plugin loading in it's late days.

We'll have to wait and see if and how this will be ported.

I don't think the rack is a problem, I like it
It needs more modules and some of the not so much colored plug-ins like a LA2A or a API. It would be also a good option to allow the user to mix the saturation level (something like a "drive" knob from 0 to 100% for every plug-in and/or for the complete rack).

Sorry, but the LA2A is one of the most(!) coloring compressors on the market that I know. But I get the point and agree that there are more modules needed. At least at some point.

Personally, I'd love to see a Neve 1081 and Trident A Range EQ first. Which would complement VCC fairly well, and we would have access to another native Trident EQ . After that, maybe Harrison, Neumann, Avalon? Stuff that not everyone uses. The only "Harrison Plugin" (not counting the discontinues SE creation) is currently the UAD. Let's not talk about the Ardur/Harrison collaboration.

For any reason, when i drag-n-drop a new module from the dock in an already populated rack, it tends to slip here and there at first time. Not that easy to put it after the other modules. Am i missing something ?

Nope - blame it on the iLok.
It's a known issue.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I still haven't tried it with S1 yet (will be interesting to see how that goes ) but so far it works w/o any real problems in bitwig 1.1.1 and Live beta 9.1.7b2

Point being, I'm pretty sold on it. I've already put it to good use.

Some people seem to not like the rack. The rack is EASILY one of the selling points for me.

So, for my tracks (and I personally usually don't have more that 12-16 unless I'm doing multi outs) instead of complicated GUI changing madness, the point is that these are going to be go-to frequently and thus it's all there. One GUI, whatever you want per track.

I dunno how you guys work, but I get REALLY tired of the constant GUI opening/closing so I'm looking at this as a feature.

Dumb question: if you compensate the gain does it still sound as huge? A 2db increase isn't insignificant.