7X7 Drum Machine Expansions for the TR-8!!!

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Shy wrote:Roland can't even make their TR-707 / TR-727 emulation sound remotely as good as the original.

Most of that demo on YouTube has a significantly raised pitch for the hi hats for a reason - they couldn't figure out and emulate the TR-707's DAC and analog processing which is responsible for most of the high frequency content of the sounds.

TR-707's and TR-727's internal samples have a low sample rate. The crash and ride cymbals are 25,000 Hz and other samples (including hi hats) are 22,500 Hz. So playing those original samples taken from the ROM, you could hear how extremely "lo-fi" they are compared to being played back on the hardware. It's a similar situation with many other "digital drum machines", including the lovely SCI Drumtraks and Oberheim DMX and DX. I don't know how exactly those drum machines work, but it's not just plain distortion or "exciter"-like processing that's responsible for the hugely significant addition of high frequency content. Plus all those drum machines modify the entire frequency balance as well and make the samples (stored in ROM) sound nicer and less harsh in the middle frequency range than they really are.
The DAC behavior is absolutely modeled. In the demo video he is playing around with pitch and decay all over the place so I would not view it as a 1:1 comparison. He raises the pitch on the hi-hats quite purposefully. Here's how the 707/727 actually work with regards to the modeling (from the 7X7-TR8 website).

"CAPTURING THE ORIGINALS

Even though the TR-707 and TR-727 were primarily digital devices, it would not have been possible to perfectly replicate their sound using samples. Due to the low bit-rates of the original units, quantization noise became a problem, particularly during the sound’s decay. To reduce quantization noise, a clever design was employed where PCM sound was produced using non-decaying waveforms and decay was then introduced in the analog circuitry after being converted. Also, at the time these units were developed, deviations in the clock that triggered the PCM caused differences in pitch, and deviations in the analog circuitry downstream of the D/A converter caused variances in decay characteristics.

To replicate these sounds for the TR-8, we started with the original PCM wave data found on the classic machines. We then used our ACB process to completely model the PCM output stage, carefully including all of its quirks and instabilities. Modeling the analog envelope and amplifier stages that came after the D/A converter allowed us to implement the “Tune” and “Decay” parameters that are available on the TR-8, but not present on the original units."
"No computer tells me what to do. When my Garmin GPS tells me to turn right I turn left. I haven't been home in 5 years."

Post

ImNotDedYet wrote:
damoog wrote:
Man, I bought an 808 when I heard about including the 7x7 sounds, (and the fact I've wanted a hardware drum machine for a while now and love the old 808 and 909 sounds) but in my so far limited playing...you guys are right. It's fantastic for live playing and jamming, but integrating it into my DAW is just a pain in the arse. Individual audio outs over USB and having to use the TR8 as a soundcard sucks. And I'm still not convinced I'd use the actual effects on the TR8 as opposed to effects I can use in my DAW which I have better control over and better sound. But it's hella fun creating patterns with pretty damn good sounding 808 and 909 sounds.
What are you talking about? I use TR-8 in my DAW without the USB cable and I don't use it as a soundcard. It's work totally fine with my Fireface UC and easy to use in my DAW (Live 9).I really like it in my Studio. I record everything in my DAW and sound so analog. Like it for creativity.

Post

switchonsid wrote:What are you talking about? I use TR-8 in my DAW without the USB cable and I don't use it as a soundcard. It's work totally fine with my Fireface UC and easy to use in my DAW (Live 9).I really like it in my Studio. I record everything in my DAW and sound so analog. Like it for creativity.
But you are limited to the 4 outs still right?

I have mine connected via USB (for the MIDI only) and then route the outs back into my DAW.
This does mean I am limited to 4 outs, as opposed to one for each sound.

If you have a workaround I'd be all ears.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

Post

switchonsid wrote:
ImNotDedYet wrote:
damoog wrote:
Man, I bought an 808 when I heard about including the 7x7 sounds, (and the fact I've wanted a hardware drum machine for a while now and love the old 808 and 909 sounds) but in my so far limited playing...you guys are right. It's fantastic for live playing and jamming, but integrating it into my DAW is just a pain in the arse. Individual audio outs over USB and having to use the TR8 as a soundcard sucks. And I'm still not convinced I'd use the actual effects on the TR8 as opposed to effects I can use in my DAW which I have better control over and better sound. But it's hella fun creating patterns with pretty damn good sounding 808 and 909 sounds.
What are you talking about? I use TR-8 in my DAW without the USB cable and I don't use it as a soundcard. It's work totally fine with my Fireface UC and easy to use in my DAW (Live 9).I really like it in my Studio. I record everything in my DAW and sound so analog. Like it for creativity.
Yeah, you can record individual drums (or combinations of each) via the main out, or the assignable outs. But in order to record all drums to their own tracks without having to individually record each, then having to deal with lining them up properly, (because each drum is recorded in different takes) etc. it's more of a pain in the arse than I was expecting. Not to mention that to do so in one fell swoop via USB requires the TR-8 being used as your soundcard and the fact it records at 96K, not 44 or 48K - which can slow your computer down considerably, or at least my computer. You don't have to deal with this on other drum machines that have outs for each of the tracks, at least not that I'm aware of.

If you're recording all of the drums into one track, it's not a big deal.

But you're right...for creativity and just all out fun, it's really a good product. Will be even better when you can construct kits from the 808, 909, 707, and 727 as well.

Post Reply

Return to “Hardware (Instruments and Effects)”