KVR Audio

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:13 pm

It is factual that some, not all, the crashes and bugs are related to outdated graphic drivers. For those bugs/crashes the only solution will be the user, if they choose to, update their graphic drivers. No update from NI will fix those bugs.

The other bugs/crashes unrelated to outdated graphic drivers will be fixed I am sure over time.

- your friendly NI attack dog

rsp

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:14 pm

V0RT3X wrote: If you can't use it then you may as well just wait until they update it instead of whine about it, because it will inevitably get fixed..

Also since you got it for free.. then whats the point of complaining?

This isn't aimed specifically at you but some others here as well.......

Reporting bugs is not "whining". It won't "inevitably get fixed" if people don't report bugs, problems and issues with the plugin. So far with a few exceptions it's been pretty civilized feedback. I can guarantee that if this delay was released by some other developers the feedback would be much more vicious...

Calling it rubbish as the poster who you were responding to did is of no use but again a free plugin that's buggy has little value so that's the point of complaining. NI wants to start selling this plugin in a few days so right now it's essentially in public beta. I would think they should be as grateful for the free feedback and testing as we should be for a bugless free plugin.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:25 pm

zvenx wrote:It is factual that some, not all, the crashes and bugs are related to outdated graphic drivers. For those bugs/crashes the only solution will be the user, if they choose to, update their graphic drivers. No update from NI will fix those bugs.

New laptop here, and a clean install of Win 7 with all drivers up-to-date.

Still getting insta-crashes just by scanning the plugin in live 8 32/64 bit.

No big deal of course, I am confident they will fix it : )

Still though on the GUI/Drivers front it's a little dismaying that NI want to be so bleeding edge with their GUI flourishes that they expect the user base to run bleeding edge driver updates. As some have indicated, the latest drivers aren't always the most stable. If I am to believe the problem for most people is related to graphics card driver issues, I would have to conclude it is a fail on NI's part to be expecting that from people for [a] audio software a freebie delay. Of course maybe this is all just a means of testing something out for a bigger commercial project coming down the pipeline.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:26 pm

zvenx wrote:It is factual that some, not all the crashes and bugs are related to outdated graphic drivers. For those bugs/crashes the only solution will be the user, if they choose to, update their graphic drivers. No update from NI will fix those bugs.

The other bugs/crashes unrelated to outdated graphic drivers will be fixed I am sure over time.

- your friend NI attack dog

rsp

Factual ? Which bugs ? Confirmed by who ?

ENV1 has already given them the solution to the multiple instance bug. They could fix that bug without requiring any update from the end user. Some people have reported they have the latest driver but still have problems.

Look, I'm sure the new GUI system is meant to deal with the 4K craze and/or possible updated touch response compatibility but I'm not sure that trotting out a new system for a simple Holiday freebie was such a good idea and a decision I have the feeling NI might not make again. I have no problem with public beta testing for a free plugin and have done it dozens of times but again this plugin is slated to be for sale in a few days. Limiting their customer base to only those who have the latest graphics drivers is a questionable business move..........

For a third time I like NI a lot but this hasn't been their best work.....I don't think anyone can disagree with that even the rabid pack of attack dogs.........

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:28 pm

Daags wrote:
zvenx wrote:It is factual that some, not all, the crashes and bugs are related to outdated graphic drivers. For those bugs/crashes the only solution will be the user, if they choose to, update their graphic drivers. No update from NI will fix those bugs.
New laptop here, and a clean install of Win 7 with all drivers up-to-date.

Still getting insta-crashes just by scanning the plugin in live 8 32/64 bit.

No big deal of course, I am confident they will fix it : )

Still though on the GUI/Drivers front. It's a little dismaying that NI want to be so bleeding edge with their GUI flourishes that they expect the user base to run bleeding edge driver updates. As some of indicated, the latest drivers aren't always the most stable. If I am to believe the problem for most people is related to graphic's card driver issues, I would have to conclude it is a fail on NI's part to be expecting that from people for [a] audio software a freebie delay. Of course maybe this is all just a means of testing something out for a bigger commercial project coming down the pipeline.

Brilliant post ! Watch out for the NI Dogs though....you might want to get a rabies shot...

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:35 pm

Daags wrote: Still though on the GUI/Drivers front. It's a little dismaying that NI want to be so bleeding edge with their GUI flourishes that they expect the user base to run bleeding edge driver updates.

Can you provide a link of an official statement from a NI official, that every user using Replika must have the latest graphics drivers installed? If not, then take it for what it is, a recommendation for an approach to solving a problem... i don't know if you ever played games. When you have problems running a game, the first recommendation to try and solve the problem is to update the DirectX graphics library, and your graphics driver. No coincidencde. That doesn't mean that every user HAS to do the same to be able to run the game though.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:36 pm

Ok unlike Native Instruments I have to work on a Sunday even during the Holidays....such is life in Las Vegas so I'll leave you with this........

I think the vast majority of us in this thread really like N.I. and the sound of this delay or we wouldn't still be here. It's just in my opinion a questionable decision to trot out new technology in a Holiday freebie.

I appreciate a great deal their generosity I'm just sorry this experience has not been as positive as it could have been.....for all parties involved.

Off to work now..........

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:40 pm

chk071 wrote:
Daags wrote: Still though on the GUI/Drivers front. It's a little dismaying that NI want to be so bleeding edge with their GUI flourishes that they expect the user base to run bleeding edge driver updates.
Can you provide a link of an official statement from a NI official, that every user using Replika must have the latest graphics drivers installed? If not, then take it for what it is, a recommendation for an approach to solving a problem... i don't know if you ever played games. When you have problems running a game, the first recommendation to try and solve the problem is to update the DirectX graphics library, and your graphics driver. No coincidencde. That doesn't mean that every user HAS to do the same to be able to run the game though.

Ok one more then I have to go........

THIS ISN'T A GAME.....it's a dead simple delay plugin that from a graphics standpoint should run on ancient systems. I could see if it was some complex analyzer plugin with lots of graphics feedback going on but it's...a...simple...delay. Just remove the offending I/O meters and at least one problem would be solved.......

Damn now I'm running late.........

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:45 pm

It uses an animated GUI, which obviously requires certain features of the graphics chip to be displayed. Anyway, i think the misunderstanding here is that people actually try to help, not to disagree, or attack you. If you don't want any help, fair enough.

It's a lovely plugin, your decision how much effort you want to put into getting it to work.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:45 pm

Graphics hardware support for OpenGL 2.1 or higher - in case of graphics issues, please install the latest drivers for your GPU. This can be necessary even if Windows reports them as up to date.

That was not stated on the replika page for idle reasons. If you doubt me feel free to ask Felix on the feedback thread on NI.

I said some not all crashes are graphic driver related. If the new laptop user above (Daggs) does indeed have the latest graphic drivers clearly his isn't graphic related and falls in the other category.

My experience with almost all technical support for software is almost always the default question is do you have the latest drivers (bios, graphic card, audio interface) and software versions.

Rsp

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:47 pm

in case of graphics issues, please install the latest drivers for your GPU

The magic words in bold letters. It does not require you to update your graphics drivers. If there are problems though, updating the drivers is the first step to approach the problem. It doesn't necessarily have to fix the problem.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:48 pm

chk071 wrote:
Daags wrote: Still though on the GUI/Drivers front. It's a little dismaying that NI want to be so bleeding edge with their GUI flourishes that they expect the user base to run bleeding edge driver updates.
Can you provide a link of an official statement from a NI official, that every user using Replika must have the latest graphics drivers installed? If not, then take it for what it is, a recommendation for an approach to solving a problem... i don't know if you ever played games. When you have problems running a game, the first recommendation to try and solve the problem is to update the DirectX graphics library, and your graphics driver. No coincidencde. That doesn't mean that every user HAS to do the same to be able to run the game though.

Keir @ NI wrote:Please Note: Due to a technology switch, Replika raises the bar with its requirements and still has a few issues that will be fixed in an Update.

1.) Requirements
Replika requires graphics hardware support for OpenGL 2.1 - if you see any issues on your computer, please download and install the latest drivers for your GPU. This can be necessary even if Windows reports them as up to date.

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... ad.231005/

Is that clear & official enough for you ? Number 1 requirement, first thing they mention etc.

And yes of course I have played games. And used computers. And made music. And updated software. etc. I'm not sure how that is relevant to my point that this is all a little over the top, imo, considering we're trying to make music here (not play Call of Duty or some such) and this is a freebie delay. Though you may have missed the bit where I conceded that this may well be just a means of testing some new methods that they intend to roll out on commercial products further down the pipeline. In which case I would still question the wisdom of wanting to be so bleeding edge on the graphics front that it causes widely reported stability problems, for the sake of making a wobbly bass sound for your next EDM platinum number 1.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:49 pm

Daags, see my post above. It's not a requirement.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:54 pm

I note that some of FabFilter stuff also requires GPU processing. It would be interesting to know what types of teething pains they had in doing so. Although I imagined this was done behind closed doors so to speak, that is internal beta.

And for me also interesting to know if they too during tech support for graphic issues advise users to update to the latest graphic drivers.

rsp

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:00 pm

and might I just repeat I'm running a new laptop, new and clean win7 install, all drivers right up to date. So I'm not even sure my insta-crashes at the point of being scanned are caused by graphics issues. Although I've seen similiar issues reported, NI have stated that after the first insta-crash it usually scans OK after. Not exactly indicative of solid and stable code... but I digress. It insta-crashes on me everytime regardless. And lest anyone think I'm ungrateful... I'm not : ) I am sure this will be fixed and running smoothly eventually : )

chk071 wrote:Daags, see my post above. It's not a requirement.

hehe. are you for real ?
For a start you didn't specifically ask me for requirements, just official statements that were in line with what I was saying - that NI expect the userbase to be running the very latest graphic drivers.
I delivered exactly what you asked for. Not only that, Keir (the NI official) said this was a REQUIREMENT... TWICE! ... lol
edit: I just now noticed Keir actually mentions it being a requirement THREE times. hehe.

Keir @ NI wrote:Please Note: Due to a technology switch, Replika raises the bar with its requirements and still has a few issues that will be fixed in an Update.

1.) Requirements
Replika requires graphics hardware support for OpenGL 2.1 - if you see any issues on your computer, please download and install the latest drivers for your GPU. This can be necessary even if Windows reports them as up to date.

NI Replika