Now Hive is here, is it RIP Sylenth?

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Hive 2 Sylenth1

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xamido wrote:I decided to get Hive anyway. It's not a replacement for Sylenth but it's a damn good synth.

Besides i don't own sylenth anymore (sold mine a few months ago), and Hive might be my bread n butter synth. I only hope that Urs will add some extra waveform to the oscillator.
he already said this will probaply happen, such things like new Osc can be added almost like a plugin to the system.

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C-note wrote:
izonin wrote:
audiosabre wrote:... But back to Sylenth, I'd take it over Hive. Sorry. Cool GUI though.
Hive is a replacement for Sylenth for those who can't use it - Mac 64-bit.
Hive is very nice but not even close (yet) to replacing Sylenth. It's quite easy to use Sylenth on MAC 64 bit - just get Cubase 8 32 or 64 bit, Vienna Ensemble PRO or 32 lives.
What's missing in Hive to get it close to "replace" Sylenth?

I've heard the objection a few times now, but I'm not sure whether people miss features or "magic sauce" or just plain presets. Some people who missed "magic sauce" hinted at envelopes, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Other people hinted at oscillator sound, and that made even less sense to me. Lastly, people pointed out filters, and this is where the main sonic difference is. This would make sense to me if people had gotten used to the way things are and if they are somewhat attached to it.

In any case, if there was one thing people could agree on, say, if 63% of people who object to Hive as a viable alternative to Sylenth (in the sense of maybe being their favourite supersaw synthesizer) and point it out, I'm sure we could add a fourth mode that does not have the same shortcommings as the current ones. Because, I'm sure we've done so many things right and we've pushed the envelope thus far for this kind of synth that - no matter what - I fail to see whatever major (and hopefully measurable) advantage Sylenth has over Hive.

And I don't mean that in the sense of "look here, we're killing it", I mean that in the sense of "here's a great synth, and those who object, please speak up so we can make it better - thank you very much!"

- Urs

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Maybe it needs an "Aliasing" mode?

I heard a few mention Sylenth1 aliases quite a bit.
:borg:

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V0RT3X wrote:Maybe it needs an "Aliasing" mode?

I heard a few mention Sylenth1 aliases quite a bit.
Well, the oscillators are free of aliasing. The resonance does a bit, the Warm Drive a bit more. It's not spectacularly important IMHO. I wouldn't make a filter mode without oversampling just to raise the level of aliasing. I believe that less is always better, and though it can't be avoided it can be contained.

IIRC the best source of aliasing is the distortion. But that doesn't play any major role in the majority of presets.

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xamido wrote:I decided to get Hive anyway. It's not a replacement for Sylenth but it's a damn good synth.

Besides i don't own sylenth anymore (sold mine a few months ago), and Hive might be my bread n butter synth. I only hope that Urs will add some extra waveform to the oscillator.
For the sound it's a replacement but not for the presets (don't forget we speak about a beta version of Hive).

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Urs wrote:
V0RT3X wrote:Maybe it needs an "Aliasing" mode?

I heard a few mention Sylenth1 aliases quite a bit.
Well, the oscillators are free of aliasing. The resonance does a bit, the Warm Drive a bit more. It's not spectacularly important IMHO. I wouldn't make a filter mode without oversampling just to raise the level of aliasing. I believe that less is always better, and though it can't be avoided it can be contained.

IIRC the best source of aliasing is the distortion. But that doesn't play any major role in the majority of presets.
I just played a little bit with Hive, but, for what I remember, it just has a single synth line of two osc > filters > amp, while Sylenth has two lines, A and B, AFAIK. I don't know exactly how many patches in Sylenth take advantage of this feature, but this can make a big difference in sound.
Fernando (FMR)

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fmr wrote:
Urs wrote:
V0RT3X wrote:Maybe it needs an "Aliasing" mode?

I heard a few mention Sylenth1 aliases quite a bit.
Well, the oscillators are free of aliasing. The resonance does a bit, the Warm Drive a bit more. It's not spectacularly important IMHO. I wouldn't make a filter mode without oversampling just to raise the level of aliasing. I believe that less is always better, and though it can't be avoided it can be contained.

IIRC the best source of aliasing is the distortion. But that doesn't play any major role in the majority of presets.
I just played a little bit with Hive, but, for what I remember, it just has a single synth line of two osc > filters > amp, while Sylenth has two lines, A and B, AFAIK. I don't know exactly how many patches in Sylenth take advantage of this feature, but this can make a big difference in sound.
Hive has 4 Osc's and 2 filters... the A and B parts are on a single page

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more filter option would be nice tought, in many case the filters are good enought and sometimes even great sounding but sometimes it just don't do it .
The 24 db in bazille sound right with and without resonance to me, it make the sound tight and thick and is just well balanced to work well on plenty of sound for a 24db,i wonder if a filter like this but with no self oscillation still tax a lot of cpu?

about the envelop, a pot for slope like in zebra insteed of using a modulation slot would be faster and easier to use.
Analog electronic drum samples (Free demo pack)
http://www.syntheticwav.com

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Urs wrote:I've heard the objection a few times now, but I'm not sure whether people miss features or "magic sauce" or just plain presets. Some people who missed "magic sauce" hinted at envelopes, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Other people hinted at oscillator sound, and that made even less sense to me. Lastly, people pointed out filters, and this is where the main sonic difference is. This would make sense to me if people had gotten used to the way things are and if they are somewhat attached to it.
Yep, filters is the main difference. Oscillators sound different too, but I prefer the ones in Hive. So, please don't change that. :D

What I noticed with the LP filters in Hive (and also Zebra) is that, unlike Sylenth, towards the closed position they start sounding too... soft, for lack of other words. It's like they are made of different materials. Sylenth's ones are hard, elastic rubber, and the filters in Hive are soft cotton or felt.

I'm not saying the filters sound worse, just less "rebellious".

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izonin wrote: Yep, filters is the main difference. Oscillators sound different too, but I prefer the ones in Hive. So, please don't change that. :D

yep.. in sylenth the oscillator sound very band limited and flat.. hive one sound fuller and better..i wouldn't say these sound great/amazing it didnt impress me but it's definetly better to me .

My first test when i try a synth i just listen to the saw...in sylenth it sound bad (dune 2 demo stayed 5 minutes on my hdd before i uninstall ).

for me hive will sound better than sylenth..it could have more details and clarity in the top and fuller in the low, the synth is just too new and still in beta with not much preset, people have to figure out how to program it first and it will probably get fine tuned during the beta .

In a simple synth like this all the compoennts matter a lot..you need everything to be top notch sounding from the envelops to the filters, it just have to sound right,the sound are heavily dependent of these.
Analog electronic drum samples (Free demo pack)
http://www.syntheticwav.com

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sylenth1 got a preset randomizer :D, will Hive too? ;D
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Regarding the envelopes, they are a bit different, although I don't know why and what exactly it all means.
For instance, take the one-saw, reset/retrigger init patch on each. When you bypass the filter and set all 4 amp env sliders to zero, you get a click on Hive, but no sound at all on Sylenth.
When you increase attack to 3 on Hive and 0.3 on Sylenth (the scales go to 100 and 10 respectively), the resulting short sound is punchier and fuller on Sylenth. When you set attack to max on both, on Hive the sound increases for 20 secs, on Sylenth for 30.

Or when you set all sliders to zero and then increase decay to 10 on Hive and 1 on Sylenth, you get a similar length sound, well, at least more or less in the middle of the keyboard. But as you go lower on the keyboard, the sound on Sylenth gets shorter and shorter and finally disappears, while on Hive it stays the same.
But as you go higher from the middle of the keyboard, Sylenth has a more pleasant sound as Hive's low-frequency bump is missing, while there is much more high-frequency presence, punch and clarity. I have not tried it, but I assume that leads to clearly better, more sparkling results with arp's on Sylenth.

It seems the envelopes are simply done differently on Sylenth, maybe including some key tracking influencing the envelope times, which, at least with me, leads to a more pleasant, cleaner perception.
Last edited by fluffy_little_something on Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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izonin wrote:
audiosabre wrote:... But back to Sylenth, I'd take it over Hive. Sorry. Cool GUI though.
Hive is a replacement for Sylenth for those who can't use it - Mac 64-bit.
Thanks, that actually does put things into perspective. I don't need to replace Sylenth. Still works and sounds great here :shrug:

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RIP Sylenth? Not unless Hive can do this:

ARP 303 Saw

:?:

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This whole discussion about replacing and being better is pretty capitalistic.
<Here is the best, forget the rest> does not exist in music.
Why don`t we just enjoy the different sounds, colours, presets, workflows the different synths offer?
I always enjoy opening another synth when I am looking for new inspiration.

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