Now Hive is here, is it RIP Sylenth?

[ClubHo]

For 303 better go for D16 Phoscyon.

After several days testing Hive (and Dune2), its UI is awesome. However I won't purchase it, it isn't enough. The lack of finetuning for each oscillator, it's a big no-no for me. It light on CPU compared to Diva, but it's CPU intensive when you compare it with Sylenth1 or Dune2. Almost the same CPU that a normal patch in Spire.

And, Imho, Sylenth1 still sounding more trancier. I hope Mac users can enjoy Sylenth1 soon with the upcoming update.

This would be my personal rank:

Spire > Dune 2 > Sylenth1 > Hive.

Is there a fine tune knob for each oscillator?

We deliberately did't put them there.

For single oscs, fine tune is done by the Detune knob.

2 oscillators or more on the same tune are pointless in Hive since you can get 16x unison with just one oscillator. When you however detune in intervals, there's not much use of fine tune anyway.

Detune on both oscillators works in opposite directions. left up right down or vice versa.

Sub oscs can be fine tuned by holding [shift] while dragging their tune knob.

Nevertheless, if for whatever reason someone still needs to fine tune an oscillator, one can route the Constant modulator onto Osc Tune in the ModMatrix.

So there's plenty of ways. The best way is however to think economic and forgo the need to fine tune. The 16x unison should reduce the need to waste two oscillators for a thick sound on a given pitch.

On a normal synth, cents(fine tune) would be tuned to -3/+3 to get a certain type of beating.

To get the same beating in HIVE both detune knobs would have to be set to double the value +6/+6.

This bothered me at first but now that I understand it, its perfectly fine.

[Fritze]

One last go:

Take 2

And for reference, the original clip:

ARP 303 Saw

They are *ahem* somewhat different, but does the original clip really sound better?

Hehe, great. Is that Hive?

In a manner of speaking, yes.

ARP 303 Saw is Hive (all except the 'thanks for trying this demo' bit, which I added).

Take 2 is Sylenth.

Gorgeous! Psychoacoustics 101. Love it.

[fluffy_little_something]

Regarding the pulse, I sent Sylenth and a SE synth through a signal analyzer, the Sylenth pulse is almost perfect, no increasing little sine waves close to the corners, the lines are really horizontal and vertical, whereas the SE one is much more unsymmetrical and slightly skewed even. On the other hand, the Sylenth pulse flickers quite a lot, whereas the SE one hardly moves.
What does all that mean?

[Sendy]

Yes, Sylenth's waveforms look like they were drawn with a straightedge, but that visual perfection is a sign of aural imperfections. I compared Sylenth's squarewave to Zebra's a long time ago and found Zebra's to be much more harmonically pure, consistent and even. Zebra's (and many good synths') waveforms have some "overshoot" at the discontinuities - this is actually desirable (it's called the Gibbs phenomenon) in bandlimited waves even if they don't look so pretty

Regarding pulsewidth: trying to set up - for example - a pulse wave that cycles between 10% and 20% pulsewidth was, to me, a nightmare. I could get close, but playing up and down the keyboard would send the modulation wildly off, often wrapping through silence (zero pulsewidth) and creating an unstable sound. Of course, one might want that kind of wonky sound sometimes, but personally I like to rely on being able to set and modulate between specific duty cycles reliably. It's the one thing that basic subtractive synthesis has to offer to tailor the pre-filter oscillator sound.

Regarding the tonal quality of the squarewave - it just sounds kinda boosty and distorted. A lot of it probably comes from the "flickering" you mentioned observing. These are like the audible equivalent of "jaggies" in computer graphics (aka aliasing). NI's Monark has a similar "boosty" sounding squarewave, but without the aliasing, so I have that sound covered perfectly already

A lot of it is just subjective - and possibly just a justification for not buying YET ANOTHER synth

I'm on the fence about both Sylenth and Hive - but if Hive were to get a filter with the drive and resonance character of Sylenth (or close) - warts and all - I'd jump on it in a heartbeat.

[Synthetic Wav]

That Sylenth 303 sound is classic, especially with a touch of distortion.

https://soundcloud.com/izonin/sylenth303

what is classic is the midi line, and not sylenth sound , it s a common rif of the 90s, but yes it sound decent. sylenth can have a kind of analog caractere it seems, hive too, but not similar to me, i have been suprised with hive but i think the filter can sound dull sometimes.
hive beeing quite simple in the architecture would really benefit from having tons of filters,a synth caractere is so much about the filters, it would make it much more a chameleon.

[Sendy]

Slightly off topic, but I too was really taken aback by Dune2's acid filters. Reminds me of how amazed I was back when I heard Sylenth's 303 impersonation for the first time. Only, Dune2 can do so much more so you can go into mutant 303 territory.

[Synthetic Wav]

filter that impressed me lately are the one in mpower synth.. with the drive these can sound really good..to bad the ui make this synth too slow to program for me ,otherwise it's one of the most intresting plugin out there.

[fluffy_little_something]

Yes, Sylenth's waveforms look like they were drawn with a straightedge, but that visual perfection is a sign of aural imperfections. I compared Sylenth's squarewave to Zebra's a long time ago and found Zebra's to be much more harmonically pure, consistent and even. Zebra's (and many good synths') waveforms have some "overshoot" at the discontinuities - this is actually desirable (it's called the Gibbs phenomenon) in bandlimited waves even if they don't look so pretty

Regarding pulsewidth: trying to set up - for example - a pulse wave that cycles between 10% and 20% pulsewidth was, to me, a nightmare. I could get close, but playing up and down the keyboard would send the modulation wildly off, often wrapping through silence (zero pulsewidth) and creating an unstable sound. Of course, one might want that kind of wonky sound sometimes, but personally I like to rely on being able to set and modulate between specific duty cycles reliably. It's the one thing that basic subtractive synthesis has to offer to tailor the pre-filter oscillator sound.

Regarding the tonal quality of the squarewave - it just sounds kinda boosty and distorted. A lot of it probably comes from the "flickering" you mentioned observing. These are like the audible equivalent of "jaggies" in computer graphics (aka aliasing). NI's Monark has a similar "boosty" sounding squarewave, but without the aliasing, so I have that sound covered perfectly already

That is why it says "PWM-like effects" rather than PWM in the manual
But the lack of dedicated pulse wave and pw control really is hard to understand with a synth that is not exactly cheap. My ancient 20-dollar SE synth can do it...

Unlike you I am not into PWM at all, never use that on my other synth, either. So the fixed pw workaround is ok with me. I don't know any synth that does everything right, unfortunately. There is always something else...

[TonyVegas]

So... the answer to the OP question is "No"?

[mhog]

So... the answer to the OP question is "No"?

it's more like "never" than "no". Not that it was so difficult to answer: the only synths replacing some others are usually the "V" ones (in the meaning of "version": v2, v3, v3 etc. ). For the record, I just bought Hive, but still waiting for Sylenth1 V2 and Vanguard V2, too. Oh, and Hive V1, of course!

[Krakatau]

Go outside and build a snowman

I wouldn't survive it, there's a snowstorm... I'm in my heated hive now...

Here currently even if the temperature aren't that hot at all at the beginning of the dry season, i have to protect myself of the sun of noon and the light is crude at an unknown degree in entire europe...



...i'll be back in the refrigerator before the end of the week, if you see what i mean !

[Sendy]

That is why it says "PWM-like effects" rather than PWM in the manual

[llze]

One last go:

Take 2

And for reference, the original clip:

ARP 303 Saw

They are *ahem* somewhat different, but does the original clip really sound better?

Hehe, great. Is that Hive?

In a manner of speaking, yes.

ARP 303 Saw is Hive (all except the 'thanks for trying this demo' bit, which I added).

Take 2 is Sylenth.

nice one!

[Vectorman]

I also like the filter in Sylenth... that's its best asset. It has good character and an appealing looseness.

About the Osc's, I've never liked the low end. The highs are lovely, but the low end is bit weak.

That's been a big part of Sylenth's appeal for me and why I keep coming back to it for some things despite its limitations...something about the top end that makes things like highpass sweeps and ARP-controlled S&H-like filter modulations sound so wonderfully fizzy and sparkly. It's like opening a fresh bottle of soda...psshhhhhht! (Oh, the silly things we come up with to try and describe sound.)

[fluffy_little_something]

I like the bass as well, frankly. No idea why people say it lacks bottom. If they want excessive bass, they can always use the eq...