Omnisphere 2 is here! (yes, it's really here!)

[Phorous]

There is a big difference between hardware and software. you should know that already. Asking for free minor updates like v2 of omnisphere is not unreasonable. Then charge for the sample pack, many companies do this and for a lot less.

I guess we're at a fundamental disagreement of Omni 2 being a "minor" update. I suppose there is no seeing eye to eye.

Take away the presets..

You have a bunch of fx. Granular is an effect, import audio should have been in the first edition. I don't need any more effects, my daw has plenty. This is minor and should be a free upgrade. Many companies do free upgrades, then charge you for the sounds.

Granular is out there. There is no complete rework of the interface or coding of the product. They added a bunch of affects on. All they needed to do to import audio is another program built in that converts .wav to their format, they already had it otherwise they would not have been able to import their own samples into the product. If you think that is a major rework of the product, or recode, or interact do over, you can think that, but I think most intelligent people won't think so. At least those that are in the computer software industry.

Take away the presets from any synth and you have a bunch of FX if you simplify it to things that modify the signal. I fail to see how Omni is different in that regard? I am a software engineer for the record.

Oh well, to each his own I suppose

[Arglebargle]

There is a big difference between hardware and software. you should know that already. Asking for free minor updates like v2 of omnisphere is not unreasonable. Then charge for the sample pack, many companies do this and for a lot less.

I guess we're at a fundamental disagreement of Omni 2 being a "minor" update. I suppose there is no seeing eye to eye.

Take away the presets..

You have a bunch of fx. Granular is an effect, import audio should have been in the first edition. I don't need any more effects, my daw has plenty. This is minor and should be a free upgrade. Many companies do free upgrades, then charge you for the sounds.

Granular is out there. There is no complete rework of the interface or coding of the product. They added a bunch of affects on. All they needed to do to import audio is another program built in that converts .wav to their format, they already had it otherwise they would not have been able to import their own samples into the product. If you think that is a major rework of the product, or recode, or interact do over, you can think that, but I think most intelligent people won't think so. At least those that are in the computer software industry.

Trading in my 5 year old car would be a minor upgrade at best for me, from my personal perspective. Therefore I should get it for free

[r1chard]

minor upgrade

You say these words but I am not sure we are using the same definition of "minor". Could you please explain what you find to be a major upgrade?

In the software industry, a major upgrade could be when the whole product is recoded, the UI redone, converting from 32 to 64bit, recoding the engine that runs the product, recoding how other software interacts.

Minor.. Add features, add on software that has already been written and embed or incorporate it with the original engine or software.... uh, nevermind..

Really if I have to explain it, you will never will agree because you don't understand.

Just because Omnisphere isn't physical doesn't mean alot of work didn't go into version 2. It also doesn't mean its any less valuable.

I never said it was less valuable.
Do I really have to go over the points again?
Minor upgrade, explained above, not worth it, should be free.
New users get 3000 presets, samples and new features for free compared to loyal customers who have to pay 750 for the same thing.
Make new customers pay for the minor updates, give your loyal customers a break.

[r1chard]

I agree with this unfairness completely. And it isn't just limited to Spectrasonics!

I have a 2010 Subaru. The 2015 model costs the same amount as I paid for my old one, and looks much nicer than my old one. But when I went to the dealership said I should be given a new car for at least half off because I have this five year old model, he wouldn't do it.

The nerve!

Oh Please, stop being silly, we all know hardware is different but if you want to use that analogy, you can trade in your 2010 against the 2015 and pay less.

I completely agree with you. I can trade in my 2010 Subaru and get the 2015 for about 50% off. If only Spectrasonics would do the same. But they are so unfair!

Which is why I said hardware is different. Every time you do a MAJOR hardware update, you must start from scratch, you must retool, that is only part of the cost. Even if you don't start from scratch you still must put a piece of hardware which is costs money. At best spectrasonics only puts out a new box.

Spectrasonics did not start from scratch neither did they have to retool. It is a minor upgrade.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Whether I rationalize about how it's fair

you rationalised that you feel you have had your $249's worth, on top of what you paid. that is a separate argument to whether or not the new features are worth what they are asking

[Phorous]

minor upgrade

You say these words but I am not sure we are using the same definition of "minor". Could you please explain what you find to be a major upgrade?

In the software industry, a major upgrade could be when the whole product is recoded, the UI redone, converting from 32 to 64bit, recoding the engine that runs the product, recoding how other software interacts.

Minor.. Add features, add on software that has already been written and embed or incorporate it with the original engine or software.... uh, nevermind..

Really if I have to explain it, you will never will agree because you don't understand.

Just because Omnisphere isn't physical doesn't mean alot of work didn't go into version 2. It also doesn't mean its any less valuable.

I never said it was less valuable.
Do I really have to go over the points again?
Minor upgrade, explained above, not worth it, should be free.
New users get 3000 presets, samples and new features for free compared to loyal customers who have to pay 750 for the same thing.
Make new customers pay for the minor updates, give your loyal customers a break.

A properly designed software architecture should be able to be upgraded for years and years without a full rewrite in established fields with engineers working in them for over 20 years.

[mholloway]

This is friggin pathetic in here.

El-bone, take a business class for f-- sake. You are lost.

r1chard, you are the single person on this planet calling this a minor upgrade. have fun with that, whatever it gets you.

everybody arguing with the two mentioned above, stop feeding the trolls. they have shown repeatedly they are stubborn to the point of total immobility in their unwarranted (or downright non-sensical) negativity, and won't be evolving anytime soon. let's move on.

-M

[noiseboyuk]

Yeah, we old users have been shafted royally. Since 1.0 we've only had the following:

• 4,500 new patches
• Trilian Library Integration - Support for loading Trilian factory soundsources, patches and multis in Omnisphere.
• 64-bit native support.
• Support for new STEAM engine features introduced in Trilian, including: Round Robin soundsources, Release layers, Multichannel soundsources, Legato articulation triggering.
• Memory Management features: Lite Version feature, sample thinning, training/purging for maximizing efficiency and faster loading/auditioning.
• Various interface improvements - Soundsource Zoom page mixing, Edit page soundsource images, memory meter, etc.
• Support for maximum number of RTAS processors in Pro Tools.
• 32-bit Sample File Server - more memory access in 32-bit systems (Mac only)
• New Browser "Favorites" system with star ratings
• "Projects" quick tagging for easy sound organization
• New "Juicy" and "Power" synthesizer filter algorithms
• Triplets and Dotted values in Arpeggiator
• Support for "Omni Live" remote control iPhone App
• New "Latch" performance features for Live Stack modes allow notes from any part to be "frozen"
• New Trigger modes allow Omnisphere and Trilian parts to be synchronized and quantized in real-time performance
• New "Sustain2" mode allows for much more realistic Rock-style Bass playing in Trilian
• All Envelopes now have Groove Lock™ feature. Envelope Patterns can be created via drag and drop of MIDI Files
• New Browser 'Search Lock' and 'Search Clear' features improve workflow
• New "Orb" page / circular sound manipulation interface
• New Harmonia zoom page shows all Harmonia parameters per layer
• Independent modulation options added for Harmonia Levels/Fine Tuning
• New Waveshaper zoom page with new polyphonic 'Crusher' and 'Reducer'
• New Granular 'Speed' and 'Position' modes
• New Granular zoom page with 'Granular Visualizer'
• New 5-Column Browser view displays more sound categories and attributes simultaneously
• Support for new 'Omni TR' iPad app
• New "Most Recent" Browser sorting option for User Patches
• Added support for Polyphonic Aftertouch
• 'Clone Part 1' feature added for use with multichannel MIDI controllers
• New "Clone Part 1 MIDI Controls and Make Omni" MIDI Learn function
• Modulation Envelope points can be key-command snapped to semitone when modulating pitch
• User-assignable Legato Interval rule added in Soundsource Zoom
• "Reset Factory defaults and preferences" feature added to Utility menu

Yeah, we've been really screwed. And now they ask for money for this puny, minor upgrade:

Audio Import - Use your own audio file as a soundsource in Omnisphere
Over 400 New DSP Waveforms for the Synth Oscillator - an increase of 100X
Wavetable Synthesis - Each Waveform is now a Morphing Wavetable
Powerful New Granular Synthesis algorithm
Deeper FM/Ring Mod capabilities for aggressive timbres
8 New Filter Types - New Power Filters, Vowel, Resonators
New Unison Drift models Analog Polysynth behavior
Expanded Modulation with new sources and many more targets
Polyphonic LFO and Modulation Envelope options
Soundsource Reversing
More than 3,000 New patches and soundsources from acclaimed Spectrasonics Sound Design Team
New Omnisphere EDM library with cutting-edge, modern sounds
New Exclusive Soundsources from Diego Stocco's Custom Built Instruments
New category of Phrase-based Soundsources for granular synthesis
Hundreds of new Circuit Bent Soundsources
Many Innovative new Psychoacoustic Soundsources
New Melodic Cave Stalactites Soundsources
Redesigned Wider User Interface with many improvements
New Show Modulation pane opens modulation routings/sources on left side
New Mini-Browser available at all times
Larger Full Browser Design
Enhanced Browsing Experience:
Sound Match™ feature instantly locates any related sounds in the library
Sound Lock™ allows endless useful variations by locking sound aspects while you browse
Easy Sound/Project Sharing for collaborators and third party libraries
Greatly Improved sound organization system
Fast Progressive Loading allows rapid auditioning
Browse Patches by Mood
Expanded Genres
Browse by Oscillator type
Boolean search options
New Arpeggiator Features:
Note transposition for step seq-style patterns
Arp pattern lock while browsing
Speed Offset control allows slow down/speed up effects
New modulation capabilities
25 New FX Units:
Innerspace
Quad Resonator
Thriftshop Speaker
Classic Twin
Bassman
Hi-Wattage
Rock Stack
Brit-Vox
Boutique
San-Z-Amp
Stompbox Modeler
Metalzone Distortion
Toxic Smasher
Foxxy Fuzz
Analog Phaser
Analog Flanger
Analog Chorus
Analog Vibrato
Solina Ensemble
Vintage Tremolo
Envelope Filter
Crying Wah
Stomp-Comp
Precision Compressor
Studio 2-Band EQ
Flexible New FX Features:
16 FX units per patch
Full matrix modulation of every FX slot
New Aux FX rack per patch with Pre/Post fader sends
Hundreds of New FX Presets and Racks
Lock FX while browsing
Improvements/Special Features:
Live Mode with key splits
Enhanced Orb with Attractor mode
Tweak Trilian Custom Controls Interface inside Omnisphere
Global Clock Speed (Halftime, Doubletime, etc)

Bastards.

Right, just to show 'em, instead of giving them $249 of my hard earned cash, I'm going to spend $3,000 on Nexus 2 expansions instead. I know I can't edit them, but to hell with Spectrasonics and their money grabbing ways of treating loyal customers.

[r1chard]

There is a big difference between hardware and software. you should know that already. Asking for free minor updates like v2 of omnisphere is not unreasonable. Then charge for the sample pack, many companies do this and for a lot less.

I guess we're at a fundamental disagreement of Omni 2 being a "minor" update. I suppose there is no seeing eye to eye.

Take away the presets..

You have a bunch of fx. Granular is an effect, import audio should have been in the first edition. I don't need any more effects, my daw has plenty. This is minor and should be a free upgrade. Many companies do free upgrades, then charge you for the sounds.

Granular is out there. There is no complete rework of the interface or coding of the product. They added a bunch of affects on. All they needed to do to import audio is another program built in that converts .wav to their format, they already had it otherwise they would not have been able to import their own samples into the product. If you think that is a major rework of the product, or recode, or interact do over, you can think that, but I think most intelligent people won't think so. At least those that are in the computer software industry.

Take away the presets from any synth and you have a bunch of FX if you simplify it to things that modify the signal. I fail to see how Omni is different in that regard? I am a software engineer for the record.

Oh well, to each his own I suppose

Are you sure that you are software engineer? You can take away the presets an a vst. The vst engine is not an effect. Physical modeling is not an effect, fm synthesis is not an effect, sample playback engine is not an effect, there are other engines. Granular takes an existing sound and delays or modify it, that is an effect. The effects I was talking about beside granular were the new ones, reverb and such. I said, my daw has a bunch of those already. I don't need to buy any more was my point.

Hugs are fine as long as they don't exceed .57 seconds.

[jtiis]

In many ways I guess MAJOR or MINOR upgrade is defined both objectively as subjectively so its hard for users to agree which it is.

Objectively the company can talk about sheer numbers (3000 new presets or X amount of dollar to produce)...
Subjectively, if the new features don't jive with the kind of music I make, then it can seem a minor upgrade...

In my case, I won't use some of the new capacities (at least I think not) - and might pass on this upgrade for that reason. Luckily, I am a VIP owner so the added discount will help me go ahead with the purchase.

My .02

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

This is friggin pathetic in here.

El-bone, take a business class for f-- sake. You are lost.

r1chard, you are the single person on this planet calling this a minor upgrade. have fun with that, whatever it gets you.

everybody arguing with the two mentioned above, stop feeding the trolls. they have shown repeatedly they are stubborn to the point of total immobility in their unwarranted (or downright non-sensical) negativity, and won't be evolving anytime soon. let's move on.

-M

you do know what a troll is, right ??

[firepile]

I agree with this unfairness completely. And it isn't just limited to Spectrasonics!

I have a 2010 Subaru. The 2015 model costs the same amount as I paid for my old one, and looks much nicer than my old one. But when I went to the dealership said I should be given a new car for at least half off because I have this five year old model, he wouldn't do it.

The nerve!

Oh Please, stop being silly, we all know hardware is different but if you want to use that analogy, you can trade in your 2010 against the 2015 and pay less.

I completely agree with you. I can trade in my 2010 Subaru and get the 2015 for about 50% off. If only Spectrasonics would do the same. But they are so unfair!

Which is why I said hardware is different. Every time you do a MAJOR hardware update, you must start from scratch, you must retool, that is only part of the cost. Even if you don't start from scratch you still must put a piece of hardware which is costs money. At best spectrasonics only puts out a new box.

Spectrasonics did not start from scratch neither did they have to retool. It is a minor upgrade.

This is clearly a major upgrade. And for the record, I have been in the computer software industry for 25 years.

[Phorous]

There is a big difference between hardware and software. you should know that already. Asking for free minor updates like v2 of omnisphere is not unreasonable. Then charge for the sample pack, many companies do this and for a lot less.

I guess we're at a fundamental disagreement of Omni 2 being a "minor" update. I suppose there is no seeing eye to eye.

Take away the presets..

You have a bunch of fx. Granular is an effect, import audio should have been in the first edition. I don't need any more effects, my daw has plenty. This is minor and should be a free upgrade. Many companies do free upgrades, then charge you for the sounds.

Granular is out there. There is no complete rework of the interface or coding of the product. They added a bunch of affects on. All they needed to do to import audio is another program built in that converts .wav to their format, they already had it otherwise they would not have been able to import their own samples into the product. If you think that is a major rework of the product, or recode, or interact do over, you can think that, but I think most intelligent people won't think so. At least those that are in the computer software industry.

Take away the presets from any synth and you have a bunch of FX if you simplify it to things that modify the signal. I fail to see how Omni is different in that regard? I am a software engineer for the record.

Oh well, to each his own I suppose

Are you sure that you are software engineer? You can take away the presets an a vst. The vst engine is not an effect. Physical modeling is not an effect, fm synthesis is not an effect, sample playback engine is not an effect, there are other engines. Granular takes an existing sound and delays or modify it, that is an effect. The effects I was talking about beside granular were the new ones, reverb and such. I said, my daw has a bunch of those already. I don't need to buy any more was my point.

Hugs are fine as long as they don't exceed .57 seconds.

Well, you do know they added Wavetable support and other improved oscillator features right? None of those are technically effects. I was just trying to simplify effect as something which modified the sound. An all pass filter is contradictory to the nature of a filter but its still called a filter for instance. Not everything is so black and white as you make it.

But seriously, effects are a big part of sound design. Without those effects certain sounds cannot be made as easily in the plugin limiting the options for making the presets you want. That limits the included presets and limits the 3rd party market for presets. More synth features are good for you even if you do not do sound design.

[r1chard]

minor upgrade

You say these words but I am not sure we are using the same definition of "minor". Could you please explain what you find to be a major upgrade?

In the software industry, a major upgrade could be when the whole product is recoded, the UI redone, converting from 32 to 64bit, recoding the engine that runs the product, recoding how other software interacts.

Minor.. Add features, add on software that has already been written and embed or incorporate it with the original engine or software.... uh, nevermind..

Really if I have to explain it, you will never will agree because you don't understand.

Just because Omnisphere isn't physical doesn't mean alot of work didn't go into version 2. It also doesn't mean its any less valuable.

I never said it was less valuable.
Do I really have to go over the points again?
Minor upgrade, explained above, not worth it, should be free.
New users get 3000 presets, samples and new features for free compared to loyal customers who have to pay 750 for the same thing.
Make new customers pay for the minor updates, give your loyal customers a break.

A properly designed software architecture should be able to be upgraded for years and years without a full rewrite in established fields with engineers working in them for over 20 years.

Great, then don't charge me $250. I can buy windows 8.1 upgrade from windows 7 for 119 bucks from the microsoft store. Tell me spectrasonics put that much time and effort into their software.

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msu ... eed_Google

Look, we could go back and forth all day. For everyone else as well. I am a little miffed that I have to pay so much for a minor upgrade, Windows 7 to 8 because of the UI redo is major upgrade for $118 (you can get it for less if you shop around).

We will never agree on major minor upgrades or whether v2 is worth $250. I can't justify it in my own mind. If you can and you can afford it go for it. I will wait for the next version or get something else. I am not here to bash Omnisphere. I like it. Just accept the fact that the upgrade is not worth it to some of us. I accept the fact it is worth it to you people who upgrade. I am happy for you. I hope V2 gives you even more the V1 for your money.

[mostlyjustj]

Whether I rationalize about how it's fair

you rationalised that you feel you have had your $249's worth, on top of what you paid. that is a separate argument to whether or not the new features are worth what they are asking

We are both rationalizing.

Rationalize: verb
1. attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate.

I'm rationalizing that it's decent value to pay $750 to license the best current version of a piece of software for 3-4 years longer than somebody who pays $500. I can afford it, so I am happy to pay for the upgrade.

As far as I can tell, you're rationalizing that Spectrasonics is running an unbalanced business practice which essentially requires long term, loyal customers to pay $250 more for precisely the same feature set that a new customer who hasn't previously supported the company has to pay. And so you are unhappy about the idea of paying for the upgrade.

Edit: Maybe you're just rationalizing that the new features aren't worth $249 to you? I can't read your mind, haha!!

Nothing wrong with rationalizing dude, we all need to do it to make decisions.