core work scenario - harmonizing a line

[amiracam]

Hi, been using RC for a only a couple of days and indeed its full featured and has a decently steep learning curve. It does seem worth spending the cycles mastering it due to the potential in alternatives to one's creative input.

All of this as a preamble to inspiring somebody to get me on the right track with supporting the most typical way that I come up with ideas.

Specifically doodling.

A melody will jump into my head in the middle of some mundane task , which I try to record on my iPod, or I'm doodling on the guitar and sometimes doodling on the keyboard.

So note, there are no chord progressions, no yet understood notion of a key, no starter phrase.

This then means to me that I have to:

1.
Start a composition (RC defaults to C major and defaults to I-IV-V-! progression - invariably not the right key and not the right progression but I understand we need defaults)
2.
Go into note editing mode to enter my newly conceived melodic motif/line, which is fairly straight ahead

Now I need support with two core tasks:
1. elaborating upon the melody embryo
2. coming up with a harmony ( progression i.e. various alternatives)

I understand that RC supports analysis upon midi import but in this case the only thing that would be imported is generally 1 - 4 measures of a melodic idea, will that suffice for RC to establish key and at least a first reasonable progression ? If so perhaps this is the way that I start working with RC i.e. use DAW for initial capture of inspiration and then import into RC.

Also with regards to helping expand the line , I understand that one can copy over phrases and or use phrase morphers and/or use variations for the phrase but does this not require that RC have established a key and progression ?

So if I have to recap the above into one question I guess It would be :

How can I provide RC with a monophonic melodic conception so that an initial key and progression are generated so that then I can proceed from there to elaborate the melody.

thanks

[dsan@mail.com]

Hi, been using RC for a only a couple of days and indeed its full featured and has a decently steep learning curve. It does seem worth spending the cycles mastering it due to the potential in alternatives to one's creative input.

All of this as a preamble to inspiring somebody to get me on the right track with supporting the most typical way that I come up with ideas.

Specifically doodling.

A melody will jump into my head in the middle of some mundane task , which I try to record on my iPod, or I'm doodling on the guitar and sometimes doodling on the keyboard.

So note, there are no chord progressions, no yet understood notion of a key, no starter phrase.

This then means to me that I have to:

1.
Start a composition (RC defaults to C major and defaults to I-IV-V-! progression - invariably not the right key and not the right progression but I understand we need defaults)
2.
Go into note editing mode to enter my newly conceived melodic motif/line, which is fairly straight ahead

Now I need support with two core tasks:
1. elaborating upon the melody embryo
2. coming up with a harmony ( progression i.e. various alternatives)

I understand that RC supports analysis upon midi import but in this case the only thing that would be imported is generally 1 - 4 measures of a melodic idea, will that suffice for RC to establish key and at least a first reasonable progression ? If so perhaps this is the way that I start working with RC i.e. use DAW for initial capture of inspiration and then import into RC.

Also with regards to helping expand the line , I understand that one can copy over phrases and or use phrase morphers and/or use variations for the phrase but does this not require that RC have established a key and progression ?

So if I have to recap the above into one question I guess It would be :

How can I provide RC with a monophonic melodic conception so that an initial key and progression are generated so that then I can proceed from there to elaborate the melody.

thanks

Let's start with your last statement; how to provide RC with a melodic conception....

This should be fairly simple and quite easily accomplished. You have already mentioned the solution in your post.

Use your DAW to record your doodling, create a MIDI file of the doodle and then import into RC.

From there you have the start of our compositon and are able to go forward adding phrases, generators, etc. as you desire.

Alternatively you can record MIDI data directly into RC; however, this will require you know and set the key and scales rules. You can then later set chords in the locations you want RC to make note changes to correspond with the scale and chord change but this may result in a different composition than what you doodled or intended. Still some interesting results can be achieved I am sure.

RE: Point 1.) You can set RC to create a new empty master track on the setting tab, under miscellaneous tab, under "New Composition". It will still default to the key of C but you can indicate other default settings for starting a new compositon.

Now, by establishing the key, and with the progression nothing but C chords, you can record your doodling and then when you change, or add, a chord, RC will automatically adjust the notes of that area to the scale rules. Interesting huh? Let the fun begin.

RE: RC and established progression; yes, in order for RC to know how the notes will fit together it needs to have parameters, such as key and scale. You can set scale rules inside the Master Track and phrase inspectors.

Once set though everything can be changed. That's the power of RC.

Happy Musiking!
dsan

I find it interesting how each person develops his/her creativity and work process. I envy you that you are able to compose a melody without a progression. I, on the other hand, tend to need the progression and add the melody/rhythm to fit.

[Atonal]

Welcome to the RC forum.

As dsan mentioned above, RC is a long, committed process to master. It is, however, very, very rewarding. Just jump in! Sometimes the most rewarding discoveries come from just bumping around the application.

Depending on how rich and contoured your single line ( monophonic ) line is, here is a quick and dirty approach to giving you close to what you were asking for. It returns only a starting sketch and outline, however, and you will certainly want to revisit the inferred chords and scale results as you move forward.

Just import your single (monophonic) line as a MIDI file. choose one of the 4 ( or re-try 4 times using a different algorithm each time to get a preferred interpretation) scale-chord algorithms which focus on interactions between chords and scales. ... hit import !! An attempted chord and scale interpretation will appear on your master track !!! If you would like to audition ( or hear ) how these initial chords synthesized your single mono line, just (A) add a new track, and then select that it 'fill track with master track chords'.
You should then have both a master track with chords and scale interpretations, AND, below, an additional track which has simple notated chords that represent the master track chords and scale.

Remember, nothing is ever fixed or 'the best' .. just a stepping off point ... You can now play around with various types of selections for different chords, . . . progressions . . etc . . . ( remember, that one of these choices may possibly be a new or altered initial melody line !! )

Regards,

-- atonal

[amiracam]

thank you both, there seems to be a consensus that importing a midi line should be my launch process for the "inspiration" scenario I posted above.

dsan, for many years I devoted a lot of my "guitar" time to jamming i.e. improving , so certainly one way things come out is in this reactive yet ironic "active" way i.e. I consciously come up with a progression or steal a progression e.g. a Band in the Box thing, or favorite tune.

Some times some partial progressions come out of doodling on the keyboard and on the guitar in particular exploring the open sounds of the guitar yet I digress.

Don't envy me too much , the problem is that I come up with these melodic ideas which generally just spring into my head, my problem is the elaboration of the idea to its full satisfying completion. My other major problem is contrasting an idea i.e. come up with a satisfying Verse / Chorus but I need a suitable breakdown or bridge.

[outsounder]

Very interesting thread, for years, the point of departure here has been lyrics that pop up and quickly scribbled down on whatever medium has been to hand at the time, be it on the back of beer mats, bus tickets through to little dicta phones and eventually iPod or like devices.

Finding a rhythm and a melody to a few lines or more of lyrics is fairly easy but as the OP suggests, finding the right key and an interesting harmonic progression is challenging as it's so easy to fall back on favourite progressions and keys leading to the blocks that every one experiences.

What little time that has been spent with RC so far under that scenario has lead to generating completely unrelated 16 bar passages of material that would never have been thought and avenues that would never normally be explored, so the "saved doodle box" of ideas has been rapidly expanding at a tremendous rate whilst little or progress is made on the original idea, especially when the the sheer wealth of sounds, movement, rhythms and arps from differing VI's are factored into the equation, hehe, all good stuff!

The key to productivity seems to lay in a establishing good understanding of the basic work flow and functions within RC (the learning curve is quiet steep) though the huge amount of knowledge in the forum along with tips and tricks and videos and phrases is invaluable, a huge thanks goes out to the many who share these!

Eventually it's a matter of becoming focused and disciplined to the original idea and the task at hand and not meandering to far (easier said than done with such an amazing app though) No doubt this will take some time but, in the meantime, let the saved doodle box for ever expand!

[BlackWinny]

One thing I would like to see in the harmonizing management of lines and in the chord progressions is the presence of the most common cadences, very known in relative chords. I have made myself a personal collection of these common cadences but it would be nice to provide common cadences (they are quite easy to categorized), perhaps as an optional subfeature of the chord progression dialog (it's a suggestion).

[Atonal]

Much of what we've been discussing here is really one's personal ( and technical capability ) approach to how to get started. What amiricam was asking carries with it both risk and costs. i.e., being able to submit to RC a 'short' , 'single', 'monophonic line', and expecting RC to return usable quality suggestions of chords. A demanding expectation at best. (although, as we know, RC comes close to meeting those rigid expectations (Bravo Atilla) , given the fact that all it has to work with is a naked, monophonic line without any initial chord suggestions).

It seems to me we have taken the (personal) creative process, and transferred that specific activity upon the algorithmic functionality of RC. Not that that is bad; however, I think we need to not forget that each person finds (over a long period of time) his own personal approach to composing.

There is little work, there's hard work, and then there are unexpected pleasant surprises . . . we need all of them !

-- atonal

[musicdevelopments]

Very interesting topic! The priority of planned features change according to user feedback, so I can tell you, harmonizing a melody line will be added in the next update. Or sooner, if you are brave enough to download the beta versions. It is going to be an iterative process; I am not an expert, and will need your opinion and suggestions.

Thanks!
Attila

[amiracam]

well again, multiple composing scenarios, two main ones for me, I either doodle a line or that pops into my head, or I doodle changes which is usually an exercise of being either on the keyboard or the guitar, and then there's the wall

anyhow back to the line scenario, one thing that sooner or later becomes apparent is that initial tonality for the line, and indeed sometimes you do specifically want the suggestions given a context i.e. that I would be able to indicate the predominant scale. Yes, often one as has a good idea of the sound for especially start and end of phrases , so if I could provide that context as well that would be great.

[Atonal]

Read my first post above ... It is already there !

-- atonal

[amiracam]

Ok, first of all I mean that I would tell RC what's the pre-dominant scale, I see how the midi import has the 4 Algos but not that I can specify the scale itself.

I'll be honest , I need to review a bit to see if it makes a difference but for example I don't want RC to guess that my melody is in C natural minor when I'm hearing G phrygian

[musicdevelopments]

Good news: the latest beta version contains melody harmonization, two different algorithms. I was satisfied with both but my opinion does not count...

The first one is a simple, basic technique, used in the 18th century, I think, but it works very well. The second algorithm uses chord rules, and looks for chords that build a valid chord progression on the melody, based on the rules. To quickly experiment with this feature I included a sample melody phrase in C major, that you will find in the phrase browser, look for "GodSaveTheQueen-CMajor" in group "* Test Melodies *"

I prepared a tutorial, available here: http://www.musicdevelopments.com/harmonization.html

You'll find the explanation of all harmonization settings there. It is important that besides the settings, the master track scale needs to be set properly because that is used as the scale for harmonization.

Please report any problems in this topic. If you think the results are wrong, or you find a bad chord somewhere, please send me the C:\Users\Public\RCHarmonize.TXT file zipped, which contains logs about the settings and decisions the program made. You can delete this file anytime if you wish.

Thanks!
Attila

[dsan@mail.com]

Actually Attila, your opinion counts the most

Without you where are we?

Looking forward to trying out the new version

Thank you!

Happy Musiking!
dsan