I don't feel I have the proper ambiance/reverb technique

[chaosbringer]

Lately in my productions I feel like I haven't quite got the proper ambiance in my track. I am currently working on a pretty big (100+ tracks) hard electronic dance project (ie, heavy, distorted kickdrums). I'm not quite close to the mix stage but I feel like I should at least have semi-proper atmosphere before getting there anyway.

I'm currently using the valhalla room verb, which for what its worth is pretty damn good. Perhaps I am simply allowing too much high frequencies in my reverb/overall track resulting in it being too bright? Perhaps its not even reverb that is the cause for the "missing" ambiance? Or maybe even I'm thinking too much on the subject matter and its throwing me off entirely?

Anyway, I would like to ask KVR if they could share some of their space-filling techniques. I have been watching a lot of pro's work, and a lot of Dave Pensado's works on youtube to try and pick up some techniques (which I think he said he browses this forum so if you happen to stumble upon this post, Dave, please feel free to comment or direct me to a video of yours on the subject )

I don't wish to post any of the track in its current form but may in the future if anyone posts some good ideas that I try out. Here is an example of the kind of ambiance I am shooting for in a track, however:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNHSe6OGtFg

Note: My track has a lot more going on than that one, and a lot more energy, however doesn't feel as "full"

[thomni]

Hard to tell without hearing your track, but are you making sure you've got delays working to create space in addition to or instead of reverbs? Just a thought.

The track also makes use of some sustained bass or deep filtered pads that seem to help hold the space. Also, maybe a hall verb would be better than a room? I don't know about valhalla's plugins but a hall might give you a better result.

And it's too early to get into the mastering or anything, but maybe try a bus compressor and something like Waves NLS. I think those help to bring up the ambience to at least tell you it's there and perhaps you don't actually need to worry about it at this stage.

Either way, good luck with your track! Always interested in hearing what the harder EDM genres come up with, so I'd say definitely post it around here when you've finished it.

[Mushy Mushy]

Also, maybe a hall verb would be better than a room? I don't know about valhalla's plugins but a hall might give you a better result.

I'm curious on why you mention a hall over a room.
Can you elaborate please? ie, due to the size, diffusion etc.

[chaosbringer]

Hard to tell without hearing your track, but are you making sure you've got delays working to create space in addition to or instead of reverbs?

It's not really track specific honestly I'm just trying to develop more techniques to use in general. Yes I do use delays as well.

[lfm]

Check out part 1 and 2 of this tut:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug08/a ... 2_0808.htm

[thomni]

Also, maybe a hall verb would be better than a room? I don't know about valhalla's plugins but a hall might give you a better result.

I'm curious on why you mention a hall over a room.
Can you elaborate please? ie, due to the size, diffusion etc.

Most room verbs I've used seem to sound drier and almost absorb ambience it feels like. Not to say they are bad or anything, but if you can find an ambience-specific reverb (Manny Reverb from Waves, and Eventide UltraVerb come to mind) I find those deliver better ambience than a room-specific like Lexicon Room for sure. If you only can get a hall I still think it gives a better ambience to the overall mix than a room though. Whether it's just due to less density of reflections/more diffusion, or creating the illusion of a hall that's made to reverberate nicely over a 20x20x10 box room I'm not sure. I dont use true convolution reverbs, but it'd be interesting to try out some IR's on ambience busses to compare against algorithmic ambiences.

That's all contingent on Valhalla's room reverb, which I can't say I've knowingly heard, so again it may not even be the issue.

Feel free to disagree otherwise though, just my own preference perhaps.

[highkoo]

Two things I like;
-On top of regular 'near' and 'far' reverb sends, I sometimes I will have 'low end' and 'high end' ones, that have the tails shelved off or shaped somehow so I can pick and choose what hits what kind of verb... And then, I might treat each of the tails a little different...
-Adding any sort of effects after the verb in the send, at <50% mix, is so fun. It can make drastic changes to 'ambience'. Just have to watch the send amounts so the original sound isnt lost...
So fun...

[thomni]

Two things I like;
-On top of regular 'near' and 'far' reverb sends, I sometimes I will have 'low end' and 'high end' ones, that have the tails shelved off or shaped somehow so I can pick and choose what hits what kind of verb... And then, I might treat each of the tails a little different...
-Adding any sort of effects after the verb in the send, at <50% mix, is so fun. It can make drastic changes to 'ambience'. Just have to watch the send amounts so the original sound isnt lost...
So fun...

How low of a lowend are you talking about?

[chaosbringer]

Check out part 1 and 2 of this tut:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug08/a ... 2_0808.htm

Thanks! I'll check it out when I get a minute.

Two things I like;
-On top of regular 'near' and 'far' reverb sends, I sometimes I will have 'low end' and 'high end' ones, that have the tails shelved off or shaped somehow so I can pick and choose what hits what kind of verb... And then, I might treat each of the tails a little different...
-Adding any sort of effects after the verb in the send, at <50% mix, is so fun. It can make drastic changes to 'ambience'. Just have to watch the send amounts so the original sound isnt lost...
So fun...

That sounds like a cool idea ill have to give that a shot.

On another note- ive been considering getting lexicon MPX or PCM native reverb. I "used" the PCM one before and I really dig it, but the price tag has prevented me from purchasing it, but the MPX reverb I can get for $100 since its on sale- is it a worthwhile reverb?

Thing is I've seen countless pro hard-dance producers using MPX but then they would change to the valhalla room verb that I have been using for the longest. So i feel its more of ~how~ im using my delay and reverbs vs what reverb I am using.

[cron]

One thing I love doing in Valhalla Room is using only the early reflections part of the verb (i.e. Depth slider at 0%). It almost works somewhere between delay and reverb (or what we think of as reverb - long tails) in creating space. Using sparse yet wide early reflections it's possible to get loads of space in the sound without clouding it up. I use VR more as a mixing tool than an 'effect' tool as such.

If you're thinking of dropping a ton of cash on Lexicon or similar, you might like to try Valhalla Vintage Verb first. That seems more geared toward big Lexicon and 'classic' reverb sounds. I think Dave Valhalla has even said on record that some of its algorithms were modelled on those of classic 80s reverb gear. I don't have VVV yet myself. Need to get that remedied!

[highkoo]

..
-On top of regular 'near' and 'far' reverb sends, I sometimes I will have 'low end' and 'high end' ones
..

How low of a lowend are you talking about?

Well none of its really that low I guess. Lower.
But nothing really low is going into it anyway. Its like, the low end of a slightly high passed snare, or something like that..