Very Disappointed...

[eddiejaguar]

First off, let me say that I was extremely excited to try out Bitwig when I first heard about it. I have been producing in Ableton for a few years. I looked at Bitwig as a way to increase my productivity as the workflow looked so fast and efficient. I tried the demo for just a few hours before I decided to buy it and when ahead with the purchase.

I have had Bitwig for a few days now and can say I'm quite disappointed . Firstly, the audio engine seems a bit strange. The loudness of everything is very subdued in Bitwig. And I'm not talking about the Db's being lower when a track is created. When pulled back to 0 db and with the master at 0 db, the samples are noticeably different than if running through Ableton's engine.

My second complaint is the loop function. Once you loop a four bar segment, you expect that every time you hit space, it will begin at the start of the loop right? That is how it works in Ableton, but apparently not in Bitwig. The little blue arrow shows up on top where the playback is starting from (kind of like Pro Tools) but it's not necessarily in the beginning of the loop. And once you start clicking around within that loop that arrow is constantly changing to where you click. So it's very tedious to have to click back to measure 1 each tim you want to play it back. I have asked a question about this in the "answers" section of Bitwig support and have yet to receive one. It maybe that I'm doing something wrong and you may have to "lock" that arrow to place. Still though, I believe this is a very counter intuitive process on something producers do so much throughout their workflow.

Next comes sampling... Coming from a hip hop background, sampling is a big part of my game. Unfortunately Bitwig has miles to catch up to Ableton. I enjoy the slicing and editing of samples in Bitwig, it's truly awesome. However, time-stretch is horrifying. I feel their algorithms do not sound good and if stretch a little too much being to sound awful. I also haven't been able to change the formant or envelope that Ableton offers. This is one of the killers for me, as I rely so heavily on sampling.

Lastly is midi controls. Ableton had the set up of midi wiring and managing done very simply. I am a user of both Maschine and Komplete Kontrol. Bitwig did a great job with the integration of Kontrol into the already programed scripts. However, they did not include Maschine . When using peer made scripts, I have to go into midi mode on Maschine, losing the full function of the control. Without the scripts, I cannot hit the play button from the Maschine, also loosing it's power within the Maschine 2.0 VST.


To summarize, I am disappointed with key features that I believe could be made better. On the flip side, there are many things I am excited about with Bitwig and see huge potential in. I am looking forward to the devs continuously improving this DAW and excited as to what they might bring forth. I would appreciated any commentary on how I can find work around to the aforementioned problems for now. As is with these issues, I find myself having to go back to Ableton for the moment.

Sincerely,
Eddie

[llze]

there was a machine4bitwig script by TeotiGraphix but i think it was removed from the community library, since he is waiting for 1.2 to make some fixes.

I guess just wait for the 1.2 beta, see what has changed/improved and then forward your complaints to tech support.

cheers

[WXLF]

I just tested your theory on the loudness being subdued.
My test was between Logic and Bitwig

I created the same VSTi patch and midi region in both DAW's and bounced them both to audio at 0.0 DB track level. Also the same velocity, 127 in logic (100%) and 100% in Bitwig.

The peak levels for each audio files were:

Logic:
L: -3.0
R: -4.4

Bitwig:
L: -3.3
R: -4.5

So unless I did not account for something, it looks like the levels are slightly higher in Logic

Anybody use Logic? 127 velocity in Logic would be the equivalent to 100% velocity in Bitwig, correct?

[Reefius]

I keep going back to Ableton Live because of all these little annoyances. The main tools like EQ and compression are just too basic in Bitwig.

Then there's also some bugs they know about but don't seem important enough to fix and the introduction of new bugs with every update.

I do love the GUI and the modular aspect of Bitwig. This DAW really has potential, but as it is now it just feels like some beta. But I will keep my license and hope that one day Bitwig will be ready to become my new main DAW

[woodsdenis]

You really have to look at Bitwig as a work in progress. I think its unfair to say its a beta at this point TBH. You could go on all day about the differences between Bitwig and other DAW's ad infinitum. I use Live and since getting Bitwig I haven't booted it up.I find everything about Bitwig more creative then Live. Thats just me, and everybody's priorities are different. The one major thing I like about BW is the ability to communicate with the developers. I have reported a number of bugs and questions and have got replies to them all, thats refreshing in this day and age. There is no DAW that is perfect and bug free, I use Logic for certain things that would be a pain in Bitwig and vice versa.

[Phorous]

Agreed on the time stretching but I personally find the volume stuff to be just right.

The other stuff I can't really comment on as it works good enough for my needs and feels intuitive for the most part.

[qtheerearranger]

One possible reason for the differences in db is the pan laws between daws, which is one of the main qualities in which gives a daw a unique sound.

[SWallace]

Is there a difference in volume between the AU and VST version of the synth you are using?

[polygonsheep]

My second complaint is the loop function. Once you loop a four bar segment, you expect that every time you hit space, it will begin at the start of the loop right? That is how it works in Ableton, but apparently not in Bitwig. The little blue arrow shows up on top where the playback is starting from (kind of like Pro Tools) but it's not necessarily in the beginning of the loop. And once you start clicking around within that loop that arrow is constantly changing to where you click. So it's very tedious to have to click back to measure 1 each tim you want to play it back. I have asked a question about this in the "answers" section of Bitwig support and have yet to receive one. It maybe that I'm doing something wrong and you may have to "lock" that arrow to place. Still though, I believe this is a very counter intuitive process on something producers do so much throughout their workflow.

This annoys the crap out of me as well.

[Ogopogo]

So you would expect that whenever you hit play with loop active it will only play the looped portion? I wouldn't like that since I often like to hear a bit of the song ahead of the part that I want to loop to put it in context. Giving you control with the playback point makes sense to me. And you need that to do takes so maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

However I do find it annoying how the playback point will jump around while you're editing. I was going to write in a mail about this but other daws like reaper have the same sort of behavior so I thought maybe I was missing something. But if I'm making a beat by moving samples around and editing them the playback point is always jumping around to whatever I touched last, which of course is not where I want to start playing from, I want to hear the whole beat. I don't want to have manually move back to the beginning every time I edit something.

[llze]

i can totally live with those stuff. There will come the open shortcuts and stuff like start clip from beginning + loop will probably come then. Currently i simply seselct a clip in the arranger, hit cmd+l , then i got my loop region around the clip and also that blue arrow moves to the beginning of that clip. So i just hit the spacebar and all is good.

[markussomething]

My second complaint is the loop function. Once you loop a four bar segment, you expect that every time you hit space, it will begin at the start of the loop right? That is how it works in Ableton, but apparently not in Bitwig. The little blue arrow shows up on top where the playback is starting from (kind of like Pro Tools) but it's not necessarily in the beginning of the loop. And once you start clicking around within that loop that arrow is constantly changing to where you click. So it's very tedious to have to click back to measure 1 each tim you want to play it back. I have asked a question about this in the "answers" section of Bitwig support and have yet to receive one. It maybe that I'm doing something wrong and you may have to "lock" that arrow to place. Still though, I believe this is a very counter intuitive process on something producers do so much throughout their workflow.

This annoys the crap out of me as well.

However I do find it annoying how the playback point will jump around while you're editing. I was going to write in a mail about this but other daws like reaper have the same sort of behavior so I thought maybe I was missing something. But if I'm making a beat by moving samples around and editing them the playback point is always jumping around to whatever I touched last, which of course is not where I want to start playing from, I want to hear the whole beat. I don't want to have manually move back to the beginning every time I edit something.

I have just tried it myself, at first didn't find it bad, but here's what I think could definitely be changed, at 2).

1) When you do a single left mouse button click in the arrangement view, this sets the insertion cursor, for inserting something via keyboard short-cut or menu. And it also sets the play cursor (little blue arrow) to the same song position.

So, concerning this it could be criticized that by this design you are forced always to insert via right mouse button click, since this won't change the play cursor. And maybe it's also criticisable, that the behaviour in the notes and automation editor is different. There the play cursor will not be changed when you set the insertion cursor.

I guess, the developers found it comfortable to be able to set the play cursor at every track line, not just at the song position line.

2) When you do a left-mouse-button-down on an arranger clip that was not previously shown as selected, the play cursor will move to the beginning of this clip. Since it only depends on "clip is selected / is not yet selected" the play cursor will be changed even if you only intended to drag and drop that clip.

This behaviour of Bitwig seems bad, because it seems rather unnecessary. When the clip is selected, you only need to click it twice to the set the play cursor. The first cick adjust the note editor view, the second click sets the play cursor.

And it seems a bit wrong, because when you drag & drop, there's no real use to have the play cursor at the point you started dragging. There's nothing anymore. If at all, the play cursor would have to be where you dropped the clip.

IMHO the 2) behaviour should be changed.

either by
a) Setting the play cursor should only be done on a left mouse button down+up (on an unselected clip) with no mouse movement inbetween, meaning a single mouse click and not drag & drop.

or
b) A click on an unselected clip should not set the play cursor at all. It will only adjust the view of the notes and automation editor, and then the second click will set the play cursor.

PS: Not to mention that what can be done with the cursor keys, home and end key, is really great, but it should not mask the fact that there is some room for improvement in the mouse behaviour.

[maitake]

The version 1 DAW i bought is not exactly the same as another version 9 DAW that i own.
this sucks

[polygonsheep]

So you would expect that whenever you hit play with loop active it will only play the looped portion? I wouldn't like that since I often like to hear a bit of the song ahead of the part that I want to loop to put it in context. Giving you control with the playback point makes sense to me. And you need that to do takes so maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

That is how it works in Logic (and I believe Live). When you have loop selected and hit play the playhead moves to the start of the loop and plays the loop. When you record with a loop selected you get the count-in, with however many bars you set, before it starts the loop.

That seems like logical loop behavior to me.

[xbitz]

just wondering why don't u use the editor for editing and the arranger for arranging, clicking on the editor part doesn't move the playhead (so why do u want to use BWS as Live, BWS has own workflow) ... the editor has nice multi-layered capability not as in Live (btw, Live can be rewired into BWS with Bidule if you'd like to use it only as a sampler)