VA Vs A

[Lotuzia]

There is a point to matching presets. It sells synths and preset banks. Its also a LOT easier to copy sounds than to come up with something of your own.

So to compare two things, and be able to abruptly *declare* that one is actually easier than the other, you need to have made both. Did you make both ? Do you have any experience in this kind of work ? Show us your work. Otherwise I think your comment might just be totally pointless (... again)

I've made thousands of presets for factory libraries and misc soundbanks. And I've also made this particular soundbank wich recreates more/less the JP8 factory library (In wich % it is faithfull, I'll let people decide ). So I can compare the two things. This is my take on it : Its not easier, ime it takes more time (averaged) to make a preset in these conditions than to make an original one. All in all, its a different work. And yes, it sells, and make musicians happy.( Because part of my job is to serve and make musicians happy by delivering to them the best possible presets I can make )

You just keep copying other ppls work, i prefer not to.

[Mod edit: Argue if you must, but try to do it without insults and without dragging nationality into it.]

You can't even read in your own language, dont you ? I said "thousands of *original* patches".
Yep just add very common/low level common racism to the list of your numerous qualities. The picture is now complete.

[Kriminal]

Ive heard your 'original' patches. Trust me, they are not.

Jog on.

[fluffy_little_something]

Frankly, with standard analog synths there are only so many possible, musical sounds. It is not easy to come up with original patches where people would say, wow, I never heard a sound like that before.

[UltraJv]

Im going to add something to the mix that never gets mentioned on KVR. Demographics. People of a certain age range (20-30ish) will fight nail and tooth for any cause thats got into them. Its why soldiers are recruited at that age. Its an age of political and life style ideals. Thats why T.Dolby, Kraftwerk et all have moved on. They no longer need to prove themselves as they've matured. They are no longer interested in 100% analogue accuracy. They are happy with "good enough" Any musician should get there in time.

[fluffy_little_something]

Im going to add something to the mix that never gets mentioned on KVR. Demographics. People of a certain age range (20-30ish) will fight nail and tooth for any cause thats got into them. Its why soldiers are recruited at that age. Its an age of political and life style ideals. Thats why T.Dolby, Kraftwerk et all have moved on. They no longer need to prove themselves as they've matured. They are no longer interested in 100% analogue accuracy. They are happy with "good enough" Any musician should get there in time.

Interesting point, might explain why I don't understand/share that obsession with analog some people, including developers, seem to have.
People in the 70s and early 80s used analog gear because there was nothing else, not because it was so good. If it had been so good, nobody would have bought the digital stuff that came later.

[fmr]

To further clarify my meaning, a piano also isn't a sound playback device, and I would never judge a piano's quality until I could put my hands on it myself. It's a performance device. If one does think of the sound of a piano as a preset, the I'd say it's an extremely flexible one that responds to velocity and pedal technique at a phenomenal level of expressiveness.

Exactly.

You will have a real hard time finding na analogue synth that comes close (even far close) to the expressiveness of a piano. Many analogues even didn't respond to velocity, and of the ones that do, many of them are clunky (to not say worse). Only a handful of them respond to aftertouch, and have more than a sustain pedal.

The CS80 was a remarkable exception, and that's why it became the favourite synth of Vangelis (which was also very much keen of the acoustic piano).

Anyway, I think that a lot of the things discussed here are just mistifications of a reality that is very much forgotten (if it was even ever known in the first place). As I said in the beginning, the vast majority of analogue synths lack a lot in the field of expressiveness, and to mask that, keyboard players had to learn some different playing techniques.

BTW, one of the most expressive synths of the eighties was the DX7, which was digital.

[jopy]

You will have a real hard time finding na analogue synth that comes close (even far close) to the expressiveness of a piano. Many analogues even didn't respond to velocity, and of the ones that do, many of them are clunky (to not say worse). Only a handful of them respond to aftertouch, and have more than a sustain pedal.

The CS80 was a remarkable exception, and that's why it became the favourite synth of Vangelis (which was also very much keen of the acoustic piano).

Anyway, I think that a lot of the things discussed here are just mistifications of a reality that is very much forgotten (if it was even ever known in the first place). As I said in the beginning, the vast majority of analogue synths lack a lot in the field of expressiveness, and to mask that, keyboard players had to learn some different playing techniques.

BTW, one of the most expressive synths of the eighties was the DX7, which was digital.

I agree with nearly all of these points. Some of the newer analogs and digital synths are highly capable of responding to touch, especially with velocity routed to the combination of filter and amplitude envelope, along with the pitch bend and mod wheel for vibrato. Together with the capacity to shape tonal characteristics in real time, I think the piano may not be that far ahead. It is ahead for certain, but certainly not by as much as it used to be. The real question for any synth designer is creating the right range for all parameters so they do respond expressively to a performance. I don't know if the analog-digital divide is all that important in that respect, though. Some hardware is exceptionally well engineered for these purposes, which is probably why it's so expensive. As I noted previously, many of the best virtual analog hardware models are pretty much in line with the newer fully analog models.

[pdxindy]

Im going to add something to the mix that never gets mentioned on KVR. Demographics. People of a certain age range (20-30ish) will fight nail and tooth for any cause thats got into them. Its why soldiers are recruited at that age. Its an age of political and life style ideals. Thats why T.Dolby, Kraftwerk et all have moved on. They no longer need to prove themselves as they've matured. They are no longer interested in 100% analogue accuracy. They are happy with "good enough" Any musician should get there in time.

Interesting point, might explain why I don't understand/share that obsession with analog some people, including developers, seem to have.
People in the 70s and early 80s used analog gear because there was nothing else, not because it was so good. If it had been so good, nobody would have bought the digital stuff that came later.

If digital were so good, nobody would be buying all the new analogue gear coming out these days

[fmr]

Im going to add something to the mix that never gets mentioned on KVR. Demographics. People of a certain age range (20-30ish) will fight nail and tooth for any cause thats got into them. Its why soldiers are recruited at that age. Its an age of political and life style ideals. Thats why T.Dolby, Kraftwerk et all have moved on. They no longer need to prove themselves as they've matured. They are no longer interested in 100% analogue accuracy. They are happy with "good enough" Any musician should get there in time.

Interesting point, might explain why I don't understand/share that obsession with analog some people, including developers, seem to have.
People in the 70s and early 80s used analog gear because there was nothing else, not because it was so good. If it had been so good, nobody would have bought the digital stuff that came later.

If digital were so good, nobody would be buying all the new analogue gear coming out these days

I have yet to see an analogue synth currently being made that I would want to have (except for the Schmidt, which I don't think is being made, actually, or modular systems).

The last analogue I was keen to have was the Alesis A6 (Andromeda).

[Kriminal]

If digital were so good, nobody would be buying all the new analogue gear coming out these days

...and selling it on ebay 3 months later

[fluffy_little_something]

If digital were so good, nobody would be buying all the new analogue gear coming out these days

I am not really familiar with the current hardware market, what sales figures are like, if there is digital gear as well, etc.

[pdxindy]

Im going to add something to the mix that never gets mentioned on KVR. Demographics. People of a certain age range (20-30ish) will fight nail and tooth for any cause thats got into them. Its why soldiers are recruited at that age. Its an age of political and life style ideals. Thats why T.Dolby, Kraftwerk et all have moved on. They no longer need to prove themselves as they've matured. They are no longer interested in 100% analogue accuracy. They are happy with "good enough" Any musician should get there in time.

Interesting point, might explain why I don't understand/share that obsession with analog some people, including developers, seem to have.
People in the 70s and early 80s used analog gear because there was nothing else, not because it was so good. If it had been so good, nobody would have bought the digital stuff that came later.

If digital were so good, nobody would be buying all the new analogue gear coming out these days

I have yet to see an analogue synth currently being made that I would want to have (except for the Schmidt, which I don't think is being made, actually, or modular systems).

The last analogue I was keen to have was the Alesis A6 (Andromeda).

And yet there is an analogue renaissance...

I would buy a newly re-released Andromeda A6 in an instant (almost regardless of price).

[fluffy_little_something]

Maybe the analog renaissance is only because of software. SCI etc. might think, well, so many people buy such plugins, maybe they will buy our hardware as well.

[fmr]

Maybe the analog renaissance is only because of software. SCI etc. might think, well, so many people buy such plugins, maybe they will buy our hardware as well.

Yes, the problem is I can live with the limitations of a $99,00 plug-in of which I can instantiate a dozen, as long as my system allows, but I will hardly accept those limitations in a hardware of which I can only use one sound at a time, occupies space, demands power and maintenance, and costs five times that.

To accept this on a hardware synth, it has to offer something I can't find in current software... and that's where the current offer fails, IMO, and why I don't spend more in older hardware too. To be convinced to buy an older synth, it has to be a bargain.

[pdxindy]

Maybe the analog renaissance is only because of software.

It is partly because of software... because many people recognize the limitations of software and value what analogue offers.

Analogue is also seeing a resurgence because it is significantly cheaper to produce it than it used to be.

Right now is the golden age of analogue modular. And if there is enough interest, we may start to see a few more analogue polys come to market. Moog has to be considering it.