Musicians using Midi drum files A problem?

[777]

Hello,

I am new so hello to you all.
I have a few questions my piano teacher has already answered for me but intrigued to hear what this community thinks?

I make some music and I am learning piano which I love.
When I make my music I use midi drum files and than create a drum kit for these files than proceed to make my song.

Bad thing and less of a musician for doing this or no problem and move on? and one day who knows I may just be capable enough to recreate these drums my self.
I look forward to your opinions and thoughts

[garryknight]

It's possible that in a few generations , "drum" will just refer to a recorded sound, and no one will know what a physical drum is unless they go to Wikipedia - if it, or something like it, still exists.

Personally, I'm in agony over whether to give up putting my music out on wax cylinders.

[vurt]

so long as you dont claim to have done the drums yourself
people have hired session musicians since always, and as youre looking to play the piano over them while you learn i personally dont see a problem.

[777]

Claim, I will most certainly claim the song is mine and plus the drum midi files are royalty free.

[SampleScience]

There is no problem in using a midi drum track and it doesn't make your song any less original. Music is mostly made in team, so using pre-made midi tracks is like asking for a drummer to ad a rhythm to your song. I think artists are often too insecure about being original, which is normal, but the fact is that it's impossible to make everything in a tune "from scratch" unless you make synthesizer music or musique concrète.

[ntom]

Most pop and electronic dance music come from drum machines that are played by computers using a sample library. If I understand you correctly, what you described is no different than what has and will continue to be done.

It's how I write my music, and I am certain it is how a lot of the members here write their own music.

It's not entirely a question of talent, but a matter of what works.
I use to play the drums for a jazz band - granted I wasn't great, but I could keep a beat, just couldn't do a lot of intense and fancy fills. However, I neither have the money or the room for not just a drum kit, but also a mic set up for recording. It is far simpler for me to just use something like Session Drums and click the notes of the beat in into my DAW.

Also, side note, I believe you misunderstand what Vurt said.
He is saying as long as you don't claim to be the player of the drums - as in the one actually hitting the drums with a drum stick. Be truthful about your methods. Besides, as I mentioned at the beginning of this, it's not unheard of by any stretch.

[DJ Warmonger]

The reality is: no one cares how was the tune made, only final outcome matters. All techniques are allowed and you learn them over time.

People arguing about music being "real" or "not real" probably have little understanding how commercial tracks are made.

[jancivil]

Bullshit, my assessment of "real" is totally based in experience of music-making and the tools of it. What a stupid strawman is that, Jebus.
Like "the way 'commercial tracks' are made" is special case. I recognize a two-bar loop that doesn't change because it doesn't f**king change.
Am I going to tell the diff between midi someone bought from Platinum Samples that was made by a great drummer and a real drummer, as long as the production on the drums convinces? Probably not.
A drum machine, I might very well notice 'it's a drum machine' because it doesn't sound real.

[jancivil]

the fact is that it's impossible to make everything in a tune "from scratch" unless you make synthesizer music or musique concrète.

I make everything in a tune from scratch - unless 'from scratch' has to mean I wrote all the software and recorded all the samples - with the whole idea it convinces as real music. It may be impossible for you but many people do it.

[Deep Purple]

It's the 21st century equivalent of using the Wrecking Crew or Funk Brothers, although in some cases much cheaper session musicians.

[The_Hidden_Goose]

There are ups and downs to using midi drum loops.

Certainlu got no problem with using them for practise, keeping time, jamming etc. I've used them for that, although I've never kept them in any "finished" thing.

I tend to steer away from drums generally because I can't play them (even with pads), and I've never been happy using static loops unedited. I'm learning to do a bit more with pads, but it won't appear in my stuff until I feel it's good enough - a long way off yet.

With a decent knowledge and experience of percussive rhythm you can edit midi loops into something that sounds good though, I know people who can do that and come up with interesting stuff. I don't really have that experience or skill, so my percussive elements are more ornamental than true rhythmic composition.

I love "motorik" drums on psychedelic rock (sometimes including drum machines), but even that ostensibly simple style of drumming is pretty crap when I do it, as I don't have that innate sense of subtle variation from experience, and I find programming that in to be a bit elusive - for the same reason I suspect.

But if you're not bothered about the drums and don't want focus on them, then maybe it's fine for you. If, in the end, you're happy with it then that's cool - it's your music. But I think you might benefit from learning to do it yourself if you can - even if you keep using those loops it'll give you options for editing them creatively.

[BERFAB]

I'm a multi-instrumentalist, like many here (the Kazoo being at the very top of my talent list). The only instrument I don't play (or at least don't play well) is drums. So I own just about every drum software package out there, along with dozens of beat sample sets, plus all the beat files included with my DAW (Cubase). I use all this stuff in some very creative ways, and sometimes NOT in very creative ways. Either way, it's my production.

And, BTW, even if I could play drums on my tracks, many of my tunes don't stick with a traditional kit. The beat is often supplemented with percussion hits, stabs, world beats, and all manner of percussive orchestration that would be impossible for any drummer to re-create in a real-time performance.

Or, you could just think of your MIDI drum beats as a fancy metronome. Surely your piano teacher can relate to that?

Cheers
-B

[jancivil]

21st c equivalent to using the Wrecking Crew

It's not an equivalent to somebody that's responding to 'this music' if you're importing something that was done outside of it.
FTR, I'm not judging. But if you want the drums to organically suit the music, you do more than paste.

[BERFAB]

21st c equivalent to using the Wrecking Crew

It's not an equivalent to somebody that's responding to 'this music' if you're importing something that was done outside of it.
FTR, I'm not judging. But if you want the drums to organically suit the music, you do more than paste.

I respectfully disagree. There are many different things you can do to a MIDI loop, which, essentially, is just a skeleton of the beat. You could very easily make standard MIDI beats sound organic to your composition. For that matter, there are many processing tricks you could use to make an audio file sound organic. Granted, this is more than just pasting.

But, after finding a suitable loop, you could build your composition around it.

I would venture that most radio-ready stuff is done with some form of pre-fab beat. Even tunes that use live drummers will supplement with added loops.

Creatively, it's on. Go nuts.

-B

[Nightpolymath]

Composers, including Bach in his Cantatas for instance, have been recycling music for centuries. Which is not a problem if you're re-inventing your music to achieve different goals.