VA Vs A

[Kriminal]

There is no answer. At least not a correct one.

Ive read most of these threads. They mainly evolve around ppl giving an opinion (everyones got one...yay!) and you putting them right.

Sure, you might have some knowledge and experience, interesting reading sometimes, but other ppl do too and their opinions are sometimes as equally valid...

And so the endless circle of 'these threads' goes round again.

I wonder if ppl prefer to make music or argue about the tools... over and over...

So, without being rude, and with respect, the thread seems quite pointless.

Do you really want to play 'guess the analogue synth' game? What happens if you guess every single on wrong?

Dunno if i made my point or not, hopefully you get my drift...

Some people seem to enjoy arguing about threads that they see no point in lol!

With respect, there are not many endeavours more pointless than overhearing other people having a conversation and butting in to tell them that there is no point in their conversation or that they should stop having it because others already know the answers (even if there are none).

The web is full of threads I find boring - solution: I don't read them!

oh the irony

[Kriminal]

We really need to do away with this "VA" term, as it is meaningless.

What term would 'we' prefer?

[aciddose]

Well, to a degree people's opinions are valid.

However we must be aware of whether an opinion is formed based upon experience or not, and in the case it is not we are forced to question the validity of the opinion.

If for example a person has never engaged in an activity, how might they form a well rounded opinion regarding this activity?

In this case, if a person has never used analog synthesizers (easy to assume one has not if one uses the term "analog" in place of "subtractive", either that or one is simply a moron) how can their opinion with regard to the differences between something they have never experienced vs. something they have experienced be granted any validity?

[Kriminal]

So, if there really is a point to this thread, post the results. Im putting my money on another epic fail of a thread that comes to no conclusion... as usual.

Unless one of the experts here can prove me wrong...no?


Didnt think so.

[aciddose]

We really need to do away with this "VA" term, as it is meaningless.

What term would 'we' prefer?

Well, you can start by defining "virtual analog", and "virtual" and "analog" and examining how the combination of these component parts changes the meaning.

I suspect you should find quite quickly that both terms are misused and combined to produce a wholly unique meaning unrelated to the meaning of the component terms.

Therefore, since existing technical terms more accurately convey the intended meaning, we should use those terms in their stead.

Those terms are: "subtractive software synthesizer". It is possible to omit "software" as this is assumed based upon context and in place use "subtractive synthesizer".

The term: "analog modelling subtractive software synthesizer" provides a more accurate description of one possible interpretation of "VA" without leaving it up to subjective interpretation. If one means one's words to be interpreted subjectively, one should become a poet.

[Kriminal]

Well, to a degree people's opinions are valid.

However we must be aware of whether an opinion is formed based upon experience or not, and in the case it is not we are forced to question the validity of the opinion.

If for example a person has never engaged in an activity, how might they form a well rounded opinion regarding this activity?

In this case, if a person has never used analog synthesizers (easy to assume one has not if one uses the term "analog" in place of "subtractive", either that or one is simply a moron) how can their opinion with regard to the differences between something they have never experienced vs. something they have experienced be granted any validity?

partly true, but what about the situations where some ppl think x sounds analogue and some dont, and they all have 'experience' ? (As is sometimes the case)

Im pretty sure most ppl have very little hands on experience, and even more are reying on faded memories...

[Kriminal]

We really need to do away with this "VA" term, as it is meaningless.

What term would 'we' prefer?

Well, you can start by defining "virtual analog", and "virtual" and "analog" and examining how the combination of these component parts changes the meaning.

I suspect you should find quite quickly that both terms are misused and combined to produce a wholly unique meaning unrelated to the meaning of the component terms.

Therefore, since existing technical terms more accurately convey the intended meaning, we should use those terms in their stead.

Those terms are: "subtractive software synthesizer". It is possible to omit "software" as this is assumed based upon context and in place use "subtractive synthesizer".

The term: "analog modelling subtractive software synthesizer" provides a more accurate description of one possible interpretation of "VA" without leaving it up to subjective interpretation. If one means one's words to be interpreted subjectively, one should become a poet.

as soon as you remove the word analogue, you lose half your target market

[aciddose]

Regarding "sounds analog"; this requires a definition of "analog" much like "warm" or "vintage" or any of these oft misused highly subjective terms.

Regarding your comment on "target markets", are you in marketing or are you posting on a forum trying to have a technical discussion about a technical subject?

[aciddose]

Using a set of subjective terms to sow confusion into a technical discussion deserves a severe beating of the ass.

[Kriminal]

Using a set of subjective terms to sow confusion into a technical discussion deserves a severe beating of the ass.

eveything in this thread is subjective

'It sounds analogue to me' is subjective. Its a nonsense. Its not a fact, its an opinion and a preference.


Its also a great marketing tool. This thread proves that.

[aciddose]

Of course, the only question that remains then is why should we bother at all to discuss something entirely subjective? A productive discussion must be technical. The purpose of a discussion is to convey meaning between multiple parties. If subjectivity diffuses that meaning into a multitude of potential interpretations the efficiency of the discussion rapidly deteriorates.

[Kriminal]

Exactly

[aciddose]

I'd be interested though in a question similar to the OP's question, I've just considered starting a thread about it but decided not to.

The question would be a poll with yes/no/unqualified options.

"Being the owner of analog subtractive synthesizers and modern analog-modelling subtractive software (insert example plugins), do you feel modern subtractive software synthesizers effectively replace the need for analog subtractive hardware? If you aren't an owner of both or remain undecided, just vote unqualified and feel free to discuss."

I'm uncertain what the result may be, but to be honest I don't really care enough to start the poll myself or get engaged in a discussion about it.

My own feelings on the matter are that despite the fact that we do indeed have great software options available today and that the future continues to look even brighter, I do not see any form of software ever effectively acting as a complete replacement for hardware. It will forever remain an additional option that I am grateful for of course (being the author of subtractive synthesizer software myself) to add to the palette that we can choose from. In many cases one might very closely match a particular sound, but the complete experience of working with hardware and the way this changes the over-all process of composition/performance/production is far more complex than simply the sounds.

That said, I wouldn't feel comfortable to say that I'd ever be willing to give up my analog gear even for the sounds alone. As good as existing software has become, it just doesn't act as a replacement. It's no different than feeling that each individual piece of hardware or software has its own place and its own particularities.

How many of us own more than one subtractive software synthesizer? Why? Is this not completely redundant? Of course not.

So, in the same vein even considering sound alone it makes exactly the same sense to own multiple hardware instruments just as it does to own multiple software instruments.

I don't see that ever changing.

[aciddose]

The OP's question though of course is 100% subjective and pointless to discuss on its own. He/she can feel free to conduct some study to gather a whole set of opinions on the subject to satisfy their own curiosity if they wish. I just don't see any potential for any practical outcome in such a study.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e57QD6Pxjeg

[fmr]

My own feelings on the matter are that despite the fact that we do indeed have great software options available today and that the future continues to look even brighter, I do not see any form of software ever effectively acting as a complete replacement for hardware. It will forever remain an additional option that I am grateful for of course (being the author of subtractive synthesizer software myself) to add to the palette that we can choose from. In many cases one might very closely match a particular sound, but the complete experience of working with hardware and the way this changes the over-all process of composition/performance/production is far more complex than simply the sounds.

IMO, the biggest problem of "modern analog modelling software synthesizers" (uff, this is really a long name ) is that they usually model one single particular unit.

As we all know, even when the hardware is of the same revision or model series there are always some "peculiarities" to the sound of each single unit (especially when they are old, as happens nowadays, and more noticeable in the older units), which makes them sound different from each other. THAT is something an "analogue modelling" synthesizer will not emulate, and sometimes I see people arguing about some "flaws" in emulations that I think are due to the fact that the unit used for the emulation does not bahave the same way the one they have access to.

I had that experience when TAL U-NO-LX was in the works. Patrick have one Juno-60, I also have a Juno-60, and sometimes I complained about things that he said he didn't observed in his model (this is just an example).

But in the long run, and talking as someone who worked and still owns several analogue synthesizers, IMO the soft synths are doing a great job, and, coupled with a good keyboard controller, can replace the old analogues.