VA Vs A

[fluffy_little_something]

Again, if I can make sounds on something like Sylenth that sound very similar to the ones on records from a time when everyone used analog synths, I can't take such comments seriously, to be honest...

Okay, here is a youtube video of guy playing some classic funk type sounds on a Moog Sub 37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHwI0PT ... freload=10

No effects, no compression... just raw synth.

So turn off the fx on Sylenth and try to make some sounds like this. This is the easy stuff to emulate...

Well, it would help to know the settings used for those patches. I can't spend hours trying to figure out which settings he used for sounds which for the most part I don't even like/want

Just had a look at the Minimoog panel (I know it was not used in the video), interestingly it has the same three pulse wave options (without width control) as Sylenth. The Sub 37 seems to have much more flexible waveforms, judging from the control.

[Lotuzia]

I had that experience when TAL U-NO-LX was in the works. Patrick have one Juno-60, I also have a Juno-60, and sometimes I complained about things that he said he didn't observed in his model (this is just an example)......
.

I also have a Juno-60. ( one of my favorite synths btw ) And, until now, was not convinced that any emulation could replace it.

[Lotuzia]

Again, if I can make sounds on something like Sylenth that sound very similar to the ones on records from a time when everyone used analog synths, I can't take such comments seriously, to be honest...

Okay, here is a youtube video of guy playing some classic funk type sounds on a Moog Sub 37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHwI0PT ... freload=10

No effects, no compression... just raw synth.

So turn off the fx on Sylenth and try to make some sounds like this. This is the easy stuff to emulate...

Well, it would help to know the settings used for those patches. I can't spend hours trying to figure out which settings he used for sounds which for the most part I don't even like/want

Just had a look at the Minimoog panel (I know it was not used in the video), interestingly it has the same three pulse wave options (without width control) as Sylenth. The Sub 37 seems to have much more flexible waveforms, judging from the control.

You should try to math it by ears Fluffy. You wont regret that exercise, its very rewarding. ( And imho you'll soon find out the two are different things, like an Odyssey is different from a Pro One or an MS-20 )

[fmr]

I had that experience when TAL U-NO-LX was in the works. Patrick have one Juno-60, I also have a Juno-60, and sometimes I complained about things that he said he didn't observed in his model (this is just an example)......

I also have a Juno-60. ( one of my favorite synths btw ) And, until now, was not convinced that any emulation could replace it.

I corrected the quote because it was me who wrote that, not Aciddose).

I replicated on the U-NO-LX a comercial soundbank available for the Juno-60 at request of a friend, and I think I was able to match all the patches in U-NO-LX (although sometimes I had to further tune them by ear on the U-NO-LX). This was done without the patch sheets, by just listening and messing with the parameters of the Jun-60 until I got the programmed sound reproduced in the buffer. The, I copied the parameters to the U-NO-LX and that's where I had to sometimes make some further adjustemets to make the sound of one match the other. But I am convinced I got them.

So, I would say that I am very pleased with the U-NO-LX (but I don't think to get rid of my Juno-60 either - it's a piece of history )

[Lotuzia]

Sorry Fernando. Bad quote editing on my side . I corrected it

[fluffy_little_something]

You should try to math it by ears Fluffy. You wont regret that exercise, its very rewarding. ( And imho you'll soon find out the two are different things, like an Odyssey is different from a Pro One or an MS-20 )

Nah, I certainly won't waste my time like that. Life is only so long, I would rather sit in the sun than try to emulate sounds I don't even like Tell me the settings of a sound you want and I will try to dial it in on Sylenth, should not take more than 5 minutes.

Of course they are different, if they weren't they would be the same, which obviously they are not. However, the sound differences have little to do with hardware vs software, but with different features. That's why even a decent SynthEdit Minimoog emulation sounds more similar to a hardware Minimoog than a hardware Odyssey does.

[Lotuzia]

You should try to math it by ears Fluffy. You wont regret that exercise, its very rewarding. ( And imho you'll soon find out the two are different things, like an Odyssey is different from a Pro One or an MS-20 )

Nah, I certainly won't waste my time like that. Life is only so long, I would rather sit in the sun than try to emulate sounds I don't even like

No probs. Your post certainly makes sense

[Gamma-UT]

Although it's somewhat an unfair test to use Sylenth without FX when, for example, the Head Hunters-Chameleon-like bass sound of the second example requires some moderate distortion to pull off well, I'm a bit surprised at someone who professes to love classic bass sounds doesn't feel an iconic funk bass sound isn't what they want to program.

[fluffy_little_something]

Huh? I am into R&B, not into Funk. The way that guy plays is way too fast and aggressive for my style. I have about a half dozen synth basses on Sylenth, I don't need more because most of the time I use an electric bass emulation.
And again, if you tell me the settings he used in the video, I will gladly dial them in as close as possible on Sylenth.

[Kriminal]

As we all know, even when the hardware is of the same revision or model series there are always some "peculiarities" to the sound of each single unit (especially when they are old, as happens nowadays, and more noticeable in the older units), which makes them sound different from each other.

I had that experience when TAL U-NO-LX was in the works. Patrick have one Juno-60, I also have a Juno-60, and sometimes I complained about things that he said he didn't observed in his model (this is just an example).

Had the same when he threw me a 101 beta. I had an SH 101 here at the time and sent him lots of files to show some differences in the software/hardware (he was using his SH at the time i believer) He got it nailed eventually tho, its about as close as you will get. I would still rather have the hardware unit tho, its prob my fav of all time (nostalgia, and love the sounds)

[treebeard]

Had the same when he threw me a 101 beta. I had an SH 101 here at the time and sent him lots of files to show some differences in the software/hardware (he was using his SH at the time i believer) He got it nailed eventually tho, its about as close as you will get. I would still rather have the hardware unit tho, its prob my fav of all time (nostalgia, and love the sounds)

I see you got well and truly reeled into the thread and your still here extending it, I love it, thats probably why you had such disdain when you started reading it - you knew full well it would suck you in and spit you out, like every other "analogue vs VA" thread

+1 for the internet making fools of us all

[fluffy_little_something]

Actually, we need a new sub-forum for these threads as they are on both hardware and software

[Kriminal]

@treebeard

Whats your point?

My post isnt arguing VA vs A.... its a comment based on fmr's post.

[ghettosynth]

As we all know, even when the hardware is of the same revision or model series there are always some "peculiarities" to the sound of each single unit (especially when they are old, as happens nowadays, and more noticeable in the older units), which makes them sound different from each other.

Well, we don't "all" know that. Certainly, some synths of the same model sound different, slightly. I own, or have owned multiples of at least a dozen different synths. Even though there are subtle differences, those differences are never as dramatic as the differences between two different models. In almost all cases, the same brand differences can be minimized or eliminated just by properly calibrating the units.

To test whether or not one can hear those differences, the same sort of concerns apply. I have two Juno 60s, one is a bit beat up, does my mind think that it doesn't sound as good because it doesn't look as good? It's really quite possible.

THAT is something an "analogue modelling" synthesizer will not emulate, and sometimes I see people arguing about some "flaws" in emulations that I think are due to the fact that the unit used for the emulation does not bahave the same way the one they have access to.

Why not? There isn't some magical reason why they sound different. People love to blame component aging, but, that only goes so far in terms of explaining differences. Much of the time, it really is that one of the units needs to either be calibrated or repaired, or, it comes down to the signal chain being used to sample/amplify the synth.

Uhe talked about trying to model envelopes in the P5, I believe, I may have the model wrong. And he complained about variation from one analog eg to the next. This is really just a variation on the calibration theme, that is, what are the tolerances of the components, particularly those responsible for the time constant.

But to say that these things can't be modeled is incorrect. Certainly decay due to aging can be modeled, certainly distortion due to broken parts can be modeled, and certainly variation due to production tolerance in components can be modeled. Now, perhaps they aren't modeled to your satisfaction today, but that doesn't mean that they can't, or even aren't modeled.

I had that experience when TAL U-NO-LX was in the works. Patrick have one Juno-60, I also have a Juno-60, and sometimes I complained about things that he said he didn't observed in his model (this is just an example).

So give an example?

[ghettosynth]

and i dont do mutes.

Then you've made your choice.