Is the desktop daw heading towards the app market?

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If so. what sorts of things need to be ironed out before the serious bedroom producer and larger recording studios make the switch?

edited because the thread took a turn towards a larger discussion
Last edited by memyselfandus on Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Is anyone really using apps like that to "produce" music on the ipad? I like my ipad, but my sense is that more advanced recording software is something of a fad. A even a small studio is so much more physically than an ipad that I just don't see the point. I can see the point of scratchpad sorts of things and certainly the live and controller tools are great.

I also think that windows tablets are going to totally kill the ipad's dominance in portable music software in fairly short order.

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memyselfandus wrote:What could be added or changed in the Cubasis app to make it better?
It would be a start to know what you consider as not so good, or where there is room for improvement. I don't have an iPad or Cubasis, but i figure that would be vital points to be able to answer your question.

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ghettosynth wrote:Is anyone really using apps like that to "produce" music on the ipad? I like my ipad, but my sense is that more advanced recording software is something of a fad. A even a small studio is so much more physically than an ipad that I just don't see the point. I can see the point of scratchpad sorts of things and certainly the live and controller tools are great.

I also think that windows tablets are going to totally kill the ipad's dominance in portable music software in fairly short order.
I think there are peeps out there doing it on iPad. Not sure how well it compares to a proper DAW setup when comparing songs in same genre.

I personally just use it as a scratchpad for now.
🌐 Spotify 🔵 Soundcloud 🌀 Soundclick

Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

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I'm switching between Cubasis and Auria right now - producing a total iOS - based project.

Cubasis could do with less pages and switching between settings.

Otherwise I'm anxiously waiting for Auria Pro, which IMO should be the first verifiable full-blown DAW for iPad. Until now the Cubasis, Auria, Garage Band, etc. are better used as sketch pads.

G
Don't ask me, I just play here.

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siriusbliss wrote:I'm switching between Cubasis and Auria right now - producing a total iOS - based project.

Cubasis could do with less pages and switching between settings.

Otherwise I'm anxiously waiting for Auria Pro, which IMO should be the first verifiable full-blown DAW for iPad. Until now the Cubasis, Auria, Garage Band, etc. are better used as sketch pads.

G
But why? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I really don't get it. Why do you want a full blown DAW on an ipad? The only advantage that I can see is that you can do work on the go. So, if someone is a train commuter or something, or travels a lot and needs to work on their recordings while they're away, sure. Other than that, you are going to have to carry stuff with you that is not particularly portable in order to record, and at that point, you might as well add the extra pound for a much more powerful ultralight notebook.

Seriously, I think that the cheap windows tablets are going to kill the ipad dominance in music. You can run something like reaper at home and away. I'm not talking about the arm based devices, I mean the ones that run x86.

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ghettosynth wrote:
siriusbliss wrote:I'm switching between Cubasis and Auria right now - producing a total iOS - based project.

Cubasis could do with less pages and switching between settings.

Otherwise I'm anxiously waiting for Auria Pro, which IMO should be the first verifiable full-blown DAW for iPad. Until now the Cubasis, Auria, Garage Band, etc. are better used as sketch pads.

G
But why? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I really don't get it. Why do you want a full blown DAW on an ipad? The only advantage that I can see is that you can do work on the go. So, if someone is a train commuter or something, or travels a lot and needs to work on their recordings while they're away, sure. Other than that, you are going to have to carry stuff with you that is not particularly portable in order to record, and at that point, you might as well add the extra pound for a much more powerful ultralight notebook.

Seriously, I think that the cheap windows tablets are going to kill the ipad dominance in music. You can run something like reaper at home and away. I'm not talking about the arm based devices, I mean the ones that run x86.
The touch screen is adding possibilities to workflow that a keyboard and trackpad aren't able to.
🌐 Spotify 🔵 Soundcloud 🌀 Soundclick

Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

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telecode wrote:
The touch screen is adding possibilities to workflow that a keyboard and trackpad aren't able to.
I get that, but it doesn't really answer the question, because, you really only have a touchpad. The question isn't whether touchpads help, but why limit yourself to such a small screen, limited environment, and limited power? I have a bluetooth keyboard for my ipad and I have usb devices that work with it. Honestly, I regret the purchase. It just isn't that useful. I think that I've spent more time with games, by an order of magnitude, than I have with audio software on the ipad.

Is touch that powerful that you would want a full, but still limited because of CPU daw on an eight inch screen?

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Touch and portability.
Multitouch is a huge feature that can't be replicated (very elegantly) with a cursor and mouse/trackpad.
Windows paradigm, where programs are designed for touch compatibility is NOT the same as apps that are designed with touch built in from the onset.
Apps are still relatively cheap, and there are TONS of them.
Doing gigs with two iPads and my guitar is a godsend (especially since I go back to lugging amos back in the 70's)!
Running 4 synths and effects in Audiobus as channel inserts into Cubasis on ONE iPad is amazingly convenient.
MIDI and Audio tracks can easily be Airdropped, Dropboxed, or Audio/MIDI muxed directly (in real time via USB) into PCs or Macs for further processing if so desired.
iPad horsepower already matches laptops from about 5-years ago, but apps are highly optimized to run with less overhead requirements. iPads are not toys.
Windows and Android tablets are barely surviving - and are not very good for audio (at least for the foreseeable future).

G
Don't ask me, I just play here.

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For me, it has remained mostly a toy. I've been putting off spending $49 for Cubasis, but I think that would at least let me better record bits and pieces than I can currently do with Loopy HD. Then I can dump those files into my PC DAW at a later time. Basically, playing with touch synths is fun and convenient, but I want a way to at least use those ideas later.

I've been holding out for the new audio interface by iConnectivity, but I'm a little concerned that they are going to leave the PC audio drivers up to ASIO4ALL, which isn't all that great. That seems like the perfect solution for integration and also standalone operation.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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siriusbliss wrote:Touch and portability.
Multitouch is a huge feature that can't be replicated (very elegantly) with a cursor and mouse/trackpad.
Windows paradigm, where programs are designed for touch compatibility is NOT the same as apps that are designed with touch built in from the onset.
Apps are still relatively cheap, and there are TONS of them.
Doing gigs with two iPads and my guitar is a godsend (especially since I go back to lugging amos back in the 70's)!
Running 4 synths and effects in Audiobus as channel inserts into Cubasis on ONE iPad is amazingly convenient.
MIDI and Audio tracks can easily be Airdropped, Dropboxed, or Audio/MIDI muxed directly (in real time via USB) into PCs or Macs for further processing if so desired.
iPad horsepower already matches laptops from about 5-years ago, but apps are highly optimized to run with less overhead requirements. iPads are not toys.
I didn't say that they were, but, I'm not looking for a five year old laptop for my audio. I can see the live approach, that's valid. I can also see that multi-touch is an issue, but windows 8 and beyond supports multitouch so it's really about applications making use of multitouch.

Easily airdropped or dropboxed is something that people will get tired of. It's a workaround for the limitations of IOS. I can't imagine trying to manage large projects on IOS for that reason alone. A windows tablet can just sit on your network, you just copy entire projects using the same plugins that you use on your desktop DAW and you can edit and work back and forth.
Windows and Android tablets are barely surviving - and are not very good for audio (at least for the foreseeable future).
Don't lump them together, they are very different things. I'm not talking about windows ARM based tablets. The newer windows tablets are just small PCs. Why would they not be good for audio? They can run ASIO drivers and support all of your ASIO USB based hardware? Android has never been about that seriously, and I don't think that it will be.

As far as sales and the long term, it's too early to tell.

That said, I'm still not seeing the need for a full DAW on an ipad. You're really talking about a limited daw, right? Running four synths is not really a workload for a modern DAW. You're also talking about playing live, that's not really a recording environment.

I'm not seeing it. I can see it for live production, I use some tools for that, although, since I'm not playing out I don't really care that much any more, but I think that the popularity will wane and we will start to see something like responsive U/I design being applied to desktop apps.

I don't even think that Apple will stick it out long term. I think that in order to compete they will have to release a "mac-pad" which is a tablet PC running OSX. When the iPad came out it made sense to go with the iPhone OS because the tablet was more of a large format phone in terms of application than it was a PC, with the change in technology that we've seen, however, that's changing.

Carry on, I don't mean to derail the thread, I was curious why someone would want a full DAW on an iPad.

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One thing and one thing only.

Waveform preview during recording.

Bring the damn feauture already.

Thanks

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ghettosynth wrote:
telecode wrote:
The touch screen is adding possibilities to workflow that a keyboard and trackpad aren't able to.
I get that, but it doesn't really answer the question, because, you really only have a touchpad. The question isn't whether touchpads help, but why limit yourself to such a small screen, limited environment, and limited power? I have a bluetooth keyboard for my ipad and I have usb devices that work with it. Honestly, I regret the purchase. It just isn't that useful. I think that I've spent more time with games, by an order of magnitude, than I have with audio software on the ipad.

Is touch that powerful that you would want a full, but still limited because of CPU daw on an eight inch screen?
My iPad has specifically no games on it for that reason. I just do music on it. It does not replace a desktop. But it has enabled me to work on music a lot more than I ever have before. Given my lifestyle and commitments, I dont have the time to just devote entire evenings to working in my studio. Being able to work on stuff on the go, on the commute to work, in the evening before bed makes a huge difference in my case. The apps are also a fraction of the desktop apps. I think its entirely possible to do a record and mix and master on the iPad and release it in the wild and it will sound better and more intricate than somethijng done on those 8 or 16 track port-a-studio type things.
🌐 Spotify 🔵 Soundcloud 🌀 Soundclick

Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

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Hopefully they will release the ipad pro.. rumored to have a usb 3 port. I don't think they will add a usb because they charge way too much money for their cheaply made camera cords etc. but to compete with the surface pro 4 they may have to..

The ipad is more of a cool thing and less of a productivity thing compared to the surface pro. I see that changing (hopefully).. people are looking for a unit that is good for productivity. the surface pro is geared in that direction. If apple releases a 15+ ipad pro with osx and a usb.. it will change everything. if they release a ipad pro as a bigger version of the current ipad.. the surface pro will surpass it for productivity.

Weather you like it or not. the touchable tablet is the future of music making. we just need bigger tablets. it's just That intuitive. after using touchable instruments like the guitars in garage band on ios and the sampler.. it;s just too good to go back to a desktop if and when they release a pro.

Have you guys tried garage band on ios? it's incredible while lacking a shit ton of features I'm used to. but it's only a matter of time when they integrate the best parts of garage band into Logic or someone else comes along and does it. I'm for bot mac and windows formats. whatever one does it better for musicians is the one I will end up with.

the ipad needs

more inputs/outputs. BAD.

to run osx

with a much larger display

stop worrying about being so thin

the ipad air is so thin it feels like they want it to slip out of your hands.

the power supply mimics a 1/8" jack which is notoriously worse than a thicker 1/4" inch jack for longevity. I swear they make it like this so they sell more over priced cables. this will bite them in the ass in the near future if windows keeps improving the surface pro. it's complete bs.

Have you guys seen how apple uses a Different over priced and made Not to last very long cable for specific needs? video out. go buy a specific cable. lightning out. go buy another cable. what a crock of shit. have they Not heard the benefits of a standard usb cable? the icloud type only.. option to save/import/export files is COMPLETELY insane.

The ipad NEEDS

a usb port

better cables. ESPECIALLY for how much they charge.

to run on osx

a much larger display

stop trying to be anorexic! the shit will break
Last edited by memyselfandus on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ghettosynth wrote: Seriously, I think that the cheap windows tablets are going to kill the ipad dominance in music. You can run something like reaper at home and away. I'm not talking about the arm based devices, I mean the ones that run x86.
The think what drives the iOS dominance is the content. The content is what drives the sales. The windows platform has very carppy content when compared to the Apple iOS platform. You are going to spend X amount more on an apple device but you will get access to 1000x more content. If it you use the iTunes store for music and video rental consumption its a device thats useful.

The other thing with Windows tablets (are least from the ones I have seen is) is the cheap ones aren't that good. An RT device is slow and useless IMO. A Surface Pro 3 is good but its not a cheap device. I also get the impression that its a device that MS is making to sell to MS Office and Adobe photoshop/illustrator users (the advanced touch pen inclusion). I would be interested to see how well someone is using it for as a DAW with StudioOne or Sonar on it? How are they getting along with audio interfaces and midi controllers that require dedicated windows drivers.
🌐 Spotify 🔵 Soundcloud 🌀 Soundclick

Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

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