KVR Audio

Nowhk · Post by **Nowhk** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:22 pm

Hi dudes. I've noticed a problem around MIDI to CV polyphony.

If I set a poly > 1, and I try a score (in my DAW, inside SE I don't know how to simulate this) where the same note (CC 60, for example) play again after some time:

Immagine.png

it sends a note message off to the previous one.
i.e. I can't play twice the same note that play with a delay (because it cut the previous one).

Is it a bug or I can do it? Tried many settings, but I can't achieve this. Thank you.

antto · Post by **antto** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:34 am

in the case you've shown on the image - what do you expect to happen exactly?

Nowhk · Post by **Nowhk** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:42 am

It should play the same note one after another, such as making a delay/feed effects.
It's a normal behaviour.

But the problem is also in SE: try play CC 60 with SE Keyboard, and after some seconds trigger with an external controller (so place a Midi In module) the same note. It will gate/cut the previous one, even if the mode is Poly. That's a bug:

BASIC.zip

Poly should works for every notes (even the note itself).

I can't achieve what I'm looking for if MIDI to Cv has this "trouble". Do you know any other MIDI to CV modules for SynthEdit?

RunBeerRun · Post by **RunBeerRun** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:44 am

The only publicly released midi to cv I know of is Scoofy's one, but it's only mono.

Nowhk · Post by **Nowhk** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:10 pm

Damn! So there is no way to break all poly voices in SynthEdit, until this "bug" will be fixed. Damn... I had started to love this tool...

antto · Post by **antto** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:04 pm

i wouldn't call it a "bug" since for a lot of instruments - it makes no sense for the same note to be played two times simultaneously (think of a real piano..)

it can be done with some coding (custom module(s))
it depends which version of SE / SE_SDK you use

for you're using the old version (SDK2) you can't make modules which create polyphony..
so, you'll have to stuff a "voice" of the synth into a container, and duplicate this container so that you have your N voices
then, using a custom module, the easiest way you can do it is with a [MIDI-IN, MIDI-OUT] module, which takes the midi notes, and assigns them to either sepparate channels, or to sepparate MIDI-OUT pins
then, use N of the standard MIDItoCV modules in monophonic mode
or, another custom module which replaces the MIDItoCV module completely (this would be more flexible but slightly more code involved)

if you use SDK3 - i can't really help there, but i think things are easier there, i think SDK3 gives you control over the polyphony
again, a custom module would be needed, but maybe you won't have to create N actual copies of the "voice" structure

Nowhk · Post by **Nowhk** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:03 pm

Well, route every voice to a sigle pin could a pain... also because I dont know how many voices I'll use in the future. Cant deal with 128 1-1 modules... thats crazy. I know nothing about SDK.

Its a bug because midi is for every kind of inst, sampler too... not only piano.

antto · Post by **antto** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:46 pm

i was trying to say that it's a feature that isn't likely to be added to the MIDItoCV module untill someone suggests it first
but if you prefer "bug" then fine - it's a "bug" that isn't likely to be "fixed" unless someone reports it

mztk · Post by **mztk** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:52 pm

can you do anything with note priority? or use multiple midi to cvs
in their own containers? you want the 1st note to ring, and then trigger it
again without the first cutting out. surely you can do that with release?

martin_l · Post by **martin_l** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:03 pm

This is an ill-defined situation in MIDI. The instrument has no clue which Note-On corresponds to which Note-Off. There is no way to implement it correctly.

See this related thread:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 3&t=431517

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:28 am

This is a midi issue not a SE issue. You could get effects like this by keeping the sequencing within synth edit, but any midi controllable synth will stop sounding a particular note if it receives a note off command for that particular note number. Or best case you get stuck notes if the synth is poorly programmed.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:56 am

Just set up your synth in SE in the way antto describes, by using a container for a "synth" rather than a "voice".

Tune each synth (and its internal MIDI->CV) to receive from one of each MIDI channel.

Then in your host send the new overlapping note to the next channel.

It's more efficient to use N*16 voices and allocate out of a single synth object, but it requires a custom MIDI->CV (voice-allocator) to do so.

Nowhk · Post by **Nowhk** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:33 am

aciddose wrote:Then in your host send the new overlapping note to the next channel.

How do you do this? I need to takes input notes and redirect on a new midi channel. I can't (I don't want) to score different midi on my DAW: it must be an automated system.

So a sort of "array-memory" inside SE, not pre-programmed from my DAW.
Such as First note->MC1, Second note->MC2, First note end->Free MC1, Third Note->MC1.

I don't know how to do it...

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:41 am

You can't. It isn't possible with MIDI.

You must put the overlapping notes in another track, or right click on them or select and assign to a different channel.

Many DAWs also have a "assign overlaps to new channel" in addition to "filter overlaps" and other options.

Nowhk · Post by **Nowhk** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:44 am

aciddose wrote:You can't. It isn't possible with MIDI.

I wish to do this with SE

If I just learn how to manage array. On Flowstone/Ruby I can script some code and does a sort of arraylist. But programming Synths/FX in Flowstone is a pain, lots of bugs, and it is not free/light as SE.

I used to program in C/C++ for making custom modules, but I can't find a valid tutorial to start with SynthEdit.
Tried the official documentation, but I can't start anywhere, lots of problems with libraries and so on.

SynthEdit - Poly on the same note