u-he

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:31 pm

Howard wrote:Might be an interesting challenge for the "Zebra Redux" guys!

drzhnn wrote:Sounds like an interesting idea. Too bad I don't own Diva yet

can we do something about that?

Phorous · Post by **Phorous** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:03 am

Was wondering if u-he ever considered doing an A/B patch system? Unfortunately its hard to search for that specifically due to KVR's search engine so I don't know if its been suggested or not.

To me that is the one simple thing that could make patch editing much better on u-he plugins. Being able to easily A/B different presets as well can be very helpful.

I know we have undo / redo but its not the same. Specifically I am talking about the system in Fab Fitler / 2CAudio plugins and others I am sure.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:37 am

Voice303 wrote:To me that is the one simple thing that could make patch editing much better on u-he plugins. Being able to easily A/B different presets as well can be very helpful.

I know we have undo / redo but its not the same.

+1 Gazillion!!!

I've made the same request several times.

I suppose that the thinking behind undo/redo is that, if you look sideways and squint a bit, you almost get patch A/Bing *and* the ability to regress step-by-step. But you don't get the kind of A/Bing that's really useful for patch editing: quick and easy single-click comparison between two patches.

True patch A/Bing would be tremendously useful for those of us who spend a lot of time editing patches. It'd save me manually naming and saving and then deleting (ie, selecting and dragging to a trash folder) multiple slightly tweaked versions of the same patch.

Would anyone really miss undo/redo if it were replaced with an A/B function? Or perhaps undo/redo and A/B could be combined somehow?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:18 am

Yes, we're discussing A/B on and off. We haven't 100% decided how to implement it, but it's certainly something we're talking about.

I think the main issue is if both states need to be stored in the preset, so that it's still there if a project is re-opened. That woudl be a bit of a problem because we haven't figured anything clever out to store settings within settings - which contain settings that contain settings that contai...

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:24 am

Right, I see the problem. How does it work in other plugins?

trance_lucent · Post by **trance_lucent** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:33 pm

Logic has builtin A/B called "Compare". And it just doesn't store both states. "Compare" just allows to switch between current state and the state that plugin had when you opened a GUI window. So if you close window, second state erased. You can think it isn't good system, but in fact this is quite handy approach, that lets you tweak a sound you don't like in the mix, and compare it to that was before tweaking and cancel changes if you want.

I just don't understand why you need to save inactive state. If you don't want it to be cleared when GUI closed, just add the button for manual erasing, but don't save it with preset.

P. S. Urs, what about OSC-support request I made recently? Is it very hard to implement?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:43 pm

Urs wrote:Yes, we're discussing A/B on and off. We haven't 100% decided how to implement it, but it's certainly something we're talking about.

I think the main issue is if both states need to be stored in the preset, so that it's still there if a project is re-opened. That woudl be a bit of a problem because we haven't figured anything clever out to store settings within settings - which contain settings that contain settings that contai...

I don't think it needs to store both states in the preset. I think the way it should work is this:

* when you load a preset - it gets loaded in both states A and B
* whenever you do a single change that flips the "dirty" flag (undoable step), change it only in A, leave B alone

This way you can always compare your changes between the initial preset state and all your tweaks. Perhaps a good call would be right-clicking the A-B button and having an option to duplicate A state to B state, so you have a new vantage point from which to compare your work.

Phorous · Post by **Phorous** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:33 pm

A/B does not need to be saved to disk, only stored in plugin memory IMO. If the VST shuts down can't it just store its complete current state in that manner? Just store the 2 sets of preset parameters separately and a value of which one is currently selected.

I know its probably not that simple to implement something like this with the VST specification.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:49 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Perhaps a good call would be right-clicking the A-B button and having an option to duplicate A state to B state, so you have a new vantage point from which to compare your work.

+1

nBeat · Post by **nBeat** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:26 pm

About A/B-ing:

2 temporary preset files somewhere in the '.data' folder.
'PresetTempA' and 'PresetTempB'.
When a new preset is loaded, that preset is stored in 'PresetTempA'.
When a parameter is changed, the new state of the preset is stored in 'PresetTempB'.
Change another parameter and that new state updates the 'PresetTempB' file.
And so on and so forth...

PresetTempA is only updated/overwritten when a new preset is selected.
Call 'PresetTempA'/'PresetTempB' alternatively from the GUI.
The current state of the plugin is saved in the project as usual (plugin memory).

Is this doable or make any sense?

By the way Urs; How's that eXT2 issue going? Have you heard from Jorgen Aase?

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:59 am

Diva - sequential voice mode.

The first note played is allocated to voice one, the second to two, and so on.

The arpeggiator + voice map modulator then becomes an eight step sequencer!

(a chromatic mode for osc voice detune would further expand the possibilities)

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:06 pm

Agree with the other guys that you don't need to store a 2nd state in the preset.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:16 pm

hakey wrote:Diva - sequential voice mode.

The first note played is allocated to voice one, the second to two, and so on.

The arpeggiator + voice map modulator then becomes an eight step sequencer!

(a chromatic mode for osc voice detune would further expand the possibilities)

What if you hold a note and play 16 others. Then the first note blocks the voice that's supposed to be next. How would you handle this?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:21 pm

As for A/B… maybe it really is that simple. I never understood it in some plug-ins.

I was of the opinion that one stores two settings that one can *always* switch back and forth between, even after loading the project again. This was the basis of doing the 8-slot snapshot EQ for Filterscape, to make it even better.

Ah well… maybe it's just the good old edit/compare from the 80ies synths...

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:30 pm

Urs wrote:I was of the opinion that one stores two settings that one can *always* switch back and forth between, even after loading the project again. This was the basis of doing the 8-slot snapshot EQ for Filterscape, to make it even better.

That's actually how it is in Modartt Pianoteq - it always holds two presets in the memory, and you can swap between them anytime. If you right-click the A-B button it even pops up with a list of sections that differ between the two presets!

Urs wrote:Ah well… maybe it's just the good old edit/compare from the 80ies synths...

And yes - that's how it most often is in plugins, I'd say.

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