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braunhirse · Post by **braunhirse** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:21 pm

Both possibilities are in my theory books. But because both possibilities are different, I ask which is more correct?

Asking my feelings, I would say to end a cadence with the tonic because the goal should be at the end to get tension with the chord progressions.

Important is the question because a turn around or chord triller looks with both directions completely different.

Because both possibilties are in the books, I ask and thanks for useful answers! Thanks!

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:09 pm

this is a useful answer,

but you may not think so at first,

but it is

there is nothing musical about correctness!

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:18 pm

A concern about correctness in favor of 'what_is_the_musical_idea_here' is just a misplaced concern and isn't going to lead you anywhere interesting.
It's just some words.
A full harmonic cadence winds up on I, period. A half-cadence does not. What is the idea? This is abstracted lingo out of some reading. The question is not really meaningful past those statements. It lacks all context.

Analyze what has happened which works. "Theory" isn't theory in the usual sense, it's a description in some terms of what is believed/understood to have worked consistently. It's always contextual, and it's always style-bound.

javier90mfc · Post by **javier90mfc** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:21 am

To answer your question simple: it is more correct to end a cadence with the tonic. IF I'm reading your question correctly you mean you have a short cadence (ii-V-I) and you want to end it with the tonic, in this case the I. The cadence is (ii-V-I) all together but you're ending the cadence with the tonic (I).

At first i read your question as "does the first chord or last chord of a piece determine the tonic/key?" If this was your question then it is more correct to assume that the last chord determines the tonic or key.

javier90mfc · Post by **javier90mfc** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:25 am

The best thing to do is to have knowledge of all cadences and be able to choose between them freely as they fit in a song. Just like telling a story. Because what's more correct is the message or version of the story you're trying to tell.

werp · Post by **werp** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:37 am

ending with a gin and tonic works best.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:59 am

javier90mfc wrote:To answer your question simple: it is more correct to end a cadence with the tonic.

As I said above, a full cadence ends in I. A half cadence does not, the landing is on V.

So 'musically more correct' is not a meaningful statement. It's "musically" something where there is an actual musical idea in play. "More correct" lacks all context.
Learn about terms in the fullness of musical thought, through experience in music that uses teh cadences and taking note of how they arrive.
A period belongs at the end of the sentence; however there is the semi-colon which may be placed at the end of what could perfectly well be a sentence but there is another thought which belongs perhaps before the period. The correctness of this is context-driven.

Tjivory · Post by **Tjivory** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:14 am

If your goal is to end a passage then the most concluding sounding cadence would lead to the tonic like the authentic cadence V-I. Asking if it is most correct seems like a bad choice of words, you might want to make it clearer what you mean? You can have quite a few cadences in a passage with each having there own purpose, and depending on your goal, which each have there own 'most' correct methods. Ie, continuing a passage with a deceptive which would ultimately want to resolve in another cadence to its tonic.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:40 am

Are black and white correct colors?

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:22 am

Academic answer: "Cadence" means "falling," implying a finality. Since the goal (the whole point, really) of tonal music is to move to the tonic, a cadence properly ends ultimately on the tonic chord, whether it be major or minor. Deceptive and half cadences help break up the monotony. Similarly, musical phrases should end on the tonic note (with forays into the dominant and such). You'll always get good results if you follow the rules -- that's why they exist, after all.

Real answer: f**k that. Mozart and Beethoven didn't bother to do this all the time, so why should you? If it sounds good, it is good. But you should at least understand the rules (more options, bigger vocabulary, yadda yadda).

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:33 pm

If we treat a full cadence resolution as the story ending on a "happy note". All stories don't end on a happy note and a happy note at the end doesn't make a bad story good. Not all good story telling requires ending on a happy note.

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:41 pm

My piano teacher's own rule of thumb is to check the last note/chord of the bass hand. Most pieces end on the tonic and is one way to check. It doesn't always work though, music being an art and not a science.

Aerocity · Post by **Aerocity** » Mon May 25, 2015 11:22 am

I don´t know any sheet music where the song isn´t ending with the tonic (but i think it exists). But the first chord is alternating.

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Mon May 25, 2015 1:01 pm

Aerocity wrote:I don´t know any sheet music where the song isn´t ending with the tonic (but i think it exists). But the first chord is alternating.

"Boogie Woogie Waltz" from Weather Report's "Sweetnighter" ends on the dominant, and there are many others in the Jazz and "classical" idioms.

MadBrain · Post by **MadBrain** » Mon May 25, 2015 4:31 pm

Cadences lead to the tonic. When you hear the V chord, you expect I to show up next. Most common types (using II V I as an example):

Open cadence:
II V (next section starts with I)

Closed cadence:
II V I

Deceptive cadence:
II V (other chord than I)

The difference between the open and closed cadence is that the phase ends on the V in the open cadence (so the last bar of your section has a V), but ends on the I in a closed cadence (so the last bar of your section has a I). The closed cadence is much more conclusive (it tends to end your song).

Is it musically more correct to begin a cadence with the tonic or end with it?