Is the Audio Engine in Bitwig up to snuff?

[marztecheque]

I'm setting up comparable projects in both DAWs I own: Bitwig and FL Studio. Right now I feel I am getting more satisfying results in FL Studio. I'm no audio engineer. I'm not an expert on pan laws. It just seems with a little EQ etc I'm getting more the results I want right now with the latest FL 12...

Well, I'm hoping 1.2 might win me back... I'll use Bitwig for audio manipulation and it's fancy in house features - but right now, honestly, until I see what 1.2 might deliver, I would not do a final mix in Bitwig... not when better options seem to be out there.

Am I being unfair? Maybe just my imagination? I want the products I've invested in to naturally be the best they can be - including Bitwig.

[Ogopogo]

You know, the plugs are different in each daw so if you're doing processing with these of course it's going to sound different. Then there's the effect the interface has on you, the look of it and the difference in the decisions you make due to workflow and stuff. This is such an old issue anyway. It's very easy for people to trick themselves into thinking they hear a difference when there isn't one. So yeah, it's most likely your imagination. If it "feels" different or "you just seem to get better results" or whatever that means nothing. Null tests are the proof.

[koalaboy]

It just seems with a little EQ etc I'm getting more the results I want right now with the latest FL 12...

Then use FL12. Bitwig (like any other DAW) is just as capable audio-wise, but if something is working for you, why change ?

There's no shame in using multiple DAWs. Just accept that any core sound 'differences' are either a difference in plugins, settings, or your own perception.

[askewd]

As a mixing & mastering engineer, who has worked in many daws, I can honestly say that bitwig audio engine is fantastic & I prefer mixing with it than anything else.

I'm not saying all the plugins or effect are better than other 3rd party ones though. It depends on how you define the "engine". In terms of pure clean summing, it's perfect.

Bitwig is super clean and it was a good move by the devs to start each track at - 10db which makes it harder for new users to overload the master easily... Something which was very easy to do in FL, Infact I think it defaults to having a limiter plugin on the master. Stuff like that may give FL it's "sound" but imho bitwig is superior as a mixing tool.

[goatgirl]

Bitwig is super clean and it was a good move by the devs to start each track at - 10db which makes it harder for new users to overload the master easily... Something which was very easy to do in FL, Infact I think it defaults to having a limiter plugin on the master. Stuff like that may give FL it's "sound" but imho bitwig is superior as a mixing tool.

I jumped through the roof the first time I played the new track in FLS 12 and may have woke up half of the neighbours it was so loud. Its not just the mixers set high, many of the newer instruments like harmor have a very loud default sound too. I think they have had a lot of complaints about audio quality over the years, so have started to take an aggressively loud approach.

As far as audio engine being up to the job, this is asked of nearly every DAW on the market. Mostly this comes down to loudness, as even a fraction of a dB difference can have a tremendous effect on how we perceive a sound. There is a good thread on the FL forum that discusses the audio engine wars, which is worth checking out.

http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=45272

[dckyoto]

As a mixing & mastering engineer, who has worked in many daws, I can honestly say that bitwig audio engine is fantastic & I prefer mixing with it than anything else.

I'm not saying all the plugins or effect are better than other 3rd party ones though. It depends on how you define the "engine". In terms of pure clean summing, it's perfect.

Bitwig is super clean and it was a good move by the devs to start each track at - 10db which makes it harder for new users to overload the master easily... Something which was very easy to do in FL, Infact I think it defaults to having a limiter plugin on the master. Stuff like that may give FL it's "sound" but imho bitwig is superior as a mixing tool.

This.

Coming from Live, the Bitwig audio engine sounds much more "full" somehow... it almost has an analog quality to it but that is probably just the design of the default effects that are bundled - for example the delay-2 feels more like a tape delay rather than a digital one. (set an LFO running on the delay time to see what I mean)

[xbitz]

"Coming from Live, the Bitwig audio engine sounds much more "full" somehow"...
+1, for me fx units of BWS sounds much more organic/less sterile than their counterparts in AL

[takaii]

Bitwig is super clean and it was a good move by the devs to start each track at - 10db which makes it harder for new users to overload the master easily... Something which was very easy to do in FL, Infact I think it defaults to having a limiter plugin on the master. Stuff like that may give FL it's "sound" but imho bitwig is superior as a mixing tool.

I jumped through the roof the first time I played the new track in FLS 12 and may have woke up half of the neighbours it was so loud. Its not just the mixers set high, many of the newer instruments like harmor have a very loud default sound too. I think they have had a lot of complaints about audio quality over the years, so have started to take an aggressively loud approach.

As far as audio engine being up to the job, this is asked of nearly every DAW on the market. Mostly this comes down to loudness, as even a fraction of a dB difference can have a tremendous effect on how we perceive a sound. There is a good thread on the FL forum that discusses the audio engine wars, which is worth checking out.

http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=45272

You know that loudness can be achived in any daw.. That project is made by someone with skills. Dont trick yourself into believing that song is because fl studio. Buy because of the engineer that made that song! But something i think fl plugins make a very dry in your face sound very easy. because of limiter on master and plugins like maximus and harmor etc. But dont forget... These can be used as thirdparty plugins inside bitwig except the limiter. Soo its not a matter of which plugins fl studio offers. But the workflow of the daws. By default bitwig with -10 sounds quited and another reason i think bitwig sounds quited is because i found it sound like more dynamic and cool sensation of depth to it in stereo also that i really never felt in fl studio. Like organic somehow. Its can be me tricking myself. Remember every defualt vst is diffrent somehow and even if you make same settings i might sound diffrent. To come up with same sound you probably have to mix diffrent with diffrent settings

[yoshi303]

i always thinked each daw sound transparent & dont make sound qualitty, as it depends the soundcard.

but i also like cub & S1 quality... (64 BIT floating... some say its useless thoo.)

[goatgirl]

You know that loudness can be achived in any daw.. That project is made by someone with skills. Dont trick yourself into believing that song is because fl studio. Buy because of the engineer that made that song!

I agree. I was just giving an example of the difference between a fresh installation. I am so used to the Bitwig levels and also my own setup in FL11, where I have everything turned down in the mixer, that I forgot that a fresh install of FL has most things turned up to 0dB.

Soo its not a matter of which plugins fl studio offers. But the workflow of the daws.

The workflow was the primary reason why I changed DAW's. I much prefer the linearity and immediacy of getting to parameters within Bitwig. Though this is purely a personal preference. The modularity is really the icing on the cake, which I only began to appreciate once I started to use it.

Like organic somehow. Its can be me tricking myself. Remember every defualt vst is diffrent somehow and even if you make same settings i might sound diffrent. To come up with same sound you probably have to mix diffrent with diffrent settings

It all starts to become subjectve really when talking about how something sounds. One audio engine is very much like another, though there are differences with the included devices. There are so many factors that affect how we percieve a sound, such that eveyones experience of it will be unique. This can make a difference in our musical endeavours and our choice of tools. Personally , I like the orange colours that Bitwig uses, to me it produces much warmer tones to my music

[TeotiGraphix]

You know that loudness can be achived in any daw.. That project is made by someone with skills. Dont trick yourself into believing that song is because fl studio. Buy because of the engineer that made that song!

I agree. I was just giving an example of the difference between a fresh installation. I am so used to the Bitwig levels and also my own setup in FL11, where I have everything turned down in the mixer, that I forgot that a fresh install of FL has most things turned up to 0dB.

Soo its not a matter of which plugins fl studio offers. But the workflow of the daws.

The workflow was the primary reason why I changed DAW's. I much prefer the linearity and immediacy of getting to parameters within Bitwig. Though this is purely a personal preference. The modularity is really the icing on the cake, which I only began to appreciate once I started to use it.

Like organic somehow. Its can be me tricking myself. Remember every defualt vst is diffrent somehow and even if you make same settings i might sound diffrent. To come up with same sound you probably have to mix diffrent with diffrent settings

It all starts to become subjectve really when talking about how something sounds. One audio engine is very much like another, though there are differences with the included devices. There are so many factors that affect how we percieve a sound, such that eveyones experience of it will be unique. This can make a difference in our musical endeavours and our choice of tools. Personally , I like the orange colours that Bitwig uses, to me it produces much warmer tones to my music

This is why I have a Les Paul and a Stratocaster.

[goatgirl]

This is why I have a Les Paul and a Stratocaster.

Cool... are they orange too ?

[TeotiGraphix]

This is why I have a Les Paul and a Stratocaster.

Cool... are they orange too ?

Well the strat is black but the Les Paul is a sunburst orange, like Slash's guitar except a little deeper orange and burnt orange around the trim. (no kidding)

[Ch00rD]

Bitwig is super clean and it was a good move by the devs to start each track at - 10db which makes it harder for new users to overload the master easily... Something which was very easy to do in FL, Infact I think it defaults to having a limiter plugin on the master. Stuff like that may give FL it's "sound" but imho bitwig is superior as a mixing tool.

Having a limiter plug-in at the end of the device chain on the master output by default is not a bad idea at all (but Bitwig will not even let me do that...). In the very first demo song provided by Bitwig that I downloaded and played (the "ModeAudio" Bitwig Studio Demo Song, someone has allowed the master output to clip by a few dB's.

[takaii]

Bitwig is super clean and it was a good move by the devs to start each track at - 10db which makes it harder for new users to overload the master easily... Something which was very easy to do in FL, Infact I think it defaults to having a limiter plugin on the master. Stuff like that may give FL it's "sound" but imho bitwig is superior as a mixing tool.

Having a limiter plug-in at the end of the device chain on the master output by default is not a bad idea at all (but Bitwig will not even let me do that...). In the very first demo song provided by Bitwig that I downloaded and played (the "ModeAudio" Bitwig Studio Demo Song, someone has allowed the master output to clip by a few dB's.

Why wont bitwig let u put a limiter last in chain? You mean as a template?
haha yes that song i rember that, after i saw it clip i closed the demosong xD