synthesizing kick parts separately

[Tonberry]

Hi! It's my first post in the forum so hi everybody!

Now onto my question: is synthesizing different kick parts a good practice? People split them for separate compression etc. anyway and it sounds convenient to have them separate from the start, especially that this could save from extra EQing due to overriding frequencies and the like. Simplest synthesizing could work two-way: clicky attack into one track and all the meat into another. It seems logical, but since I'm a noob and I can't find confessions of anyone doing it, it's best to ask before wasting time figuring this approach out if it really is just that.

Also, if this works, does the click have to come from quick pitch lowering or can some other high pitch sounds work as well? (when replacing and not supplementing the kick attack)

Thanks for your responses in advance and have a nice sunday afternoon.

[deastman]

I don't think there's a right answer here. Certainly you can do what you described. On the other hand, a lot of drum synths will give you controls over the individual parts of the sound such as depth of pitch sweep or "snappy". Either way is fine and can produce good results. Just do whatever makes sense In your workflow.

[Ari-S]

I think it depends a lot on what genre of music you're making. Besides that, I don't really see any benefits of splitting your kick drum into different parts anyways. I think you're better off by taking a kick drum that already sounds good from the beginning, without having to do lots of processing (like sampled kick drums).
But if you actually want to make your own kick drums, it may be useful to work in steps:

Analyzing
The best way to start the whole "kick making" process it to start analyzing existing kick drums. You should find out what kind of kick drum fits the best in your music. Take a reference track that you like and start analyzing the kick drum of it. While doing this, take notes of several things, like:

• How does it sit in the mix? (Is the kick very present and does it punch through all the elements of the mix, or does it sound less pressent and is it more like a supporting element in the mix?)
• What kind of attack does the kick have? (Is it like a very snappy and short attack with lots of high-mid frequencies, or is it more like a crunchy attack with a lot of energy in the high end, ...and so on.)
• Does the kick have a short decay or a long decay?
• Does the kick have a lot of weight and body (a kick with a lot of low/low-mid content), or does it sound pretty light?
• [Add anything else that seems important to you]

Another thing you can do is scrolling trough different samples from your sample libraries while working on a track and find a sample that comes close to your liking. Find out WHY you like that kick drum and WHY it suits your mix by using the list from above.

Creating separate layers
After analyzing you can try to synthesize your own kick drum. Now you know the characteristics of the kick you want to achieve, so you pretty much already have an idea of the way it should sound like.
For me, crafting kick drums is all about trial & error. There are no things right or wrong during this process, as long as you get the results that you want to achieve. But the best way to start off when you don't have a lot of experience in making kick drums, is by creating different layers for your kick drum. So for instance, you create the high end (usually for the attack of your kick) and the low end (usually for the decay of your kick) separately.

• Creating the attack

For making the attack of your kick drum, start of by layering different short/snappy sounds with a lot of high and mid frequencies. For this you can use sounds like synth-impulses or sounds with very short but loud high-end transients (think about the attack from snare drums, hi-hats, or even other kick drums). By layering these type of sounds and experimenting with different kinds of processing, you can create a powerful attack for your kick drum. (Like I said earlier, there are no right or wrong ways to do this. It's all about experimenting and doing random stuff until you're satisfied with your result.)

• Creating the decay

Making the decay/low-end of your kick drum can also be done in many different ways. You can use drum synthesis to create a pitched note that sweeps in a short amount of time from high or mid frequencies to low frequencies. You can also use existing samples for this, like taking a kick drum with a low end that sounds nice to you and use EQ to roll of the high-end.

Layering
After you've created those separate parts of your kick drum it's time to layer them and fuse them together. While doing this, keep in mind that both parts shouldn't conflict with each other. If you've created a nice attack for your kick drum, make sure that the other part of your kick that is meant for the decay doesn't have a strong attack (or not an attack at all), because otherwise some nasty phase issues may occur, and that's not what you want if you want a clean result after layering.

Now that you've layered both parts together you've created your own kick drum. If you're satisfied with the result you should bounce it to audio and save it into one of your sample libraries, so you can use it in your music.

Try lots of experimenting with different sound sources, but also with different kinds of processing and different methods for layering and creating the separate layers. It's all about practicing and finding a way of working that fits your workflow.

[Ah_Dziz]

If you're new to making drums I'd recommend not complicating matters by building a composite kick drum sound. As has been mentioned already, most drum synths will give you pretty good control over the attack and sustain portion of the sound without having to have two tracks going. Once you get a better feel for synthesis this method can add a bit of flexibility into the process and you can use all manner of things to put some high end into the attack of your kick. I often use a pitched down high hat or an snare that's been truncated down to just a handful of milliseconds. Even then the sounds are generally layered inside a sampler and fed to a single track where I can then smooth them together with a compressor or some mild distortion.

JJ

[Unaspected]

When creating a kick sound this is a common method - though it isn't often designed within the track. As Ari-S suggests, you're best off finding a kick that is close to the sound you want to work with.

However, when tracking live drums there is often a channel dedicated to a mic on the pedal and then another for the sound hole. An extra channel might be use to then add sub to the kick. So a recorded kick will often occupy 3 channels of the mixing desk - with the test tone used to add 50Hz. These elements are then processed with EQ and compression separately before being brought together and compressed a little more as one sound.

It can help to keep the sub and body separate when mixing but it isn't essential.

Also, finding the top end click from other instruments can sound cool. I quite like repitching hand drums for the top end and giving them a tight envelope.

[Tonberry]

Thanks for your answers! I guess I like to make things hard for myself, but since making music is just an idea for entertainment for me, there's no rush, I want the method that gives most control and flexibility in the end so I'm curious what road professionals choose.

Endless scrolling through sample library to get a specific sound just seems like incredibly dull idea and like leaving things to luck (maybe I'll find something that fits and maybe not). Creating own wave palletes for later use sounds like much more fun! From what I read so far, sampling seems unavoidable at some level, like you Unaspected said you do, people say they use organic sounds as layers to bring life to synthetic ones for example. Still, creating stuff from scratch is so satisfying!

[garryknight]

You might like to check out how Sonic Academy's Kick synth works. Have a look at the Walkthrough video on the Tutorials tab on that page to see how all the parts work. I used to layer my kicks, and still sometimes do, but the Kick synth makes things easier.

[Zexila]

You might like to check out how Sonic Academy's Kick synth works. Have a look at the Walkthrough video on the Tutorials tab on that page to see how all the parts work. I used to layer my kicks, and still sometimes do, but the Kick synth makes things easier.

This is good advice, tweak it on the spot and even if you made your dozens of custom layered kicks, you still aren't getting most out of it as you would in this case.

More so, because Kick is actually employing concept of layering, you can't get that wrong even with having click not that perfect immediately, you can always layer something that works better on working body/sub later anyways, but getting working body/sub is the key here.

Worth pointing out, if you are into someone else's thing, than you are going to have bad time trying to get similar results and that would start becoming obsession, but if you are into just getting something that works for your particular track, than Kick will deliver for sure.

[chk071]

I think it depends a lot on what genre of music you're making. Besides that, I don't really see any benefits of splitting your kick drum into different parts anyways. I think you're better off by taking a kick drum that already sounds good from the beginning, without having to do lots of processing (like sampled kick drums).
But if you actually want to make your own kick drums, it may be useful to work in steps:

Analyzing
The best way to start the whole "kick making" process it to start analyzing existing kick drums. You should find out what kind of kick drum fits the best in your music. Take a reference track that you like and start analyzing the kick drum of it. While doing this, take notes of several things, like:

• How does it sit in the mix? (Is the kick very present and does it punch through all the elements of the mix, or does it sound less pressent and is it more like a supporting element in the mix?)
• What kind of attack does the kick have? (Is it like a very snappy and short attack with lots of high-mid frequencies, or is it more like a crunchy attack with a lot of energy in the high end, ...and so on.)
• Does the kick have a short decay or a long decay?
• Does the kick have a lot of weight and body (a kick with a lot of low/low-mid content), or does it sound pretty light?
• [Add anything else that seems important to you]

Another thing you can do is scrolling trough different samples from your sample libraries while working on a track and find a sample that comes close to your liking. Find out WHY you like that kick drum and WHY it suits your mix by using the list from above.

Creating separate layers
After analyzing you can try to synthesize your own kick drum. Now you know the characteristics of the kick you want to achieve, so you pretty much already have an idea of the way it should sound like.
For me, crafting kick drums is all about trial & error. There are no things right or wrong during this process, as long as you get the results that you want to achieve. But the best way to start off when you don't have a lot of experience in making kick drums, is by creating different layers for your kick drum. So for instance, you create the high end (usually for the attack of your kick) and the low end (usually for the decay of your kick) separately.

• Creating the attack

For making the attack of your kick drum, start of by layering different short/snappy sounds with a lot of high and mid frequencies. For this you can use sounds like synth-impulses or sounds with very short but loud high-end transients (think about the attack from snare drums, hi-hats, or even other kick drums). By layering these type of sounds and experimenting with different kinds of processing, you can create a powerful attack for your kick drum. (Like I said earlier, there are no right or wrong ways to do this. It's all about experimenting and doing random stuff until you're satisfied with your result.)

• Creating the decay

Making the decay/low-end of your kick drum can also be done in many different ways. You can use drum synthesis to create a pitched note that sweeps in a short amount of time from high or mid frequencies to low frequencies. You can also use existing samples for this, like taking a kick drum with a low end that sounds nice to you and use EQ to roll of the high-end.

Layering
After you've created those separate parts of your kick drum it's time to layer them and fuse them together. While doing this, keep in mind that both parts shouldn't conflict with each other. If you've created a nice attack for your kick drum, make sure that the other part of your kick that is meant for the decay doesn't have a strong attack (or not an attack at all), because otherwise some nasty phase issues may occur, and that's not what you want if you want a clean result after layering.

Now that you've layered both parts together you've created your own kick drum. If you're satisfied with the result you should bounce it to audio and save it into one of your sample libraries, so you can use it in your music.

Try lots of experimenting with different sound sources, but also with different kinds of processing and different methods for layering and creating the separate layers. It's all about practicing and finding a way of working that fits your workflow.

Thanks a lot for this post mate. That's very helpful.

[highkoo]

Ive messed around with the meticulous three part layering to get a simple kick, with synths and with some sample packs that come with split layers to mix and match. But when Im actually making a track I rarely can be bothered to get that crazy, only because there is limited return on the time. I know my sample library well enough that I know where something really close is.

What I end up doing maybe a third of the time is finding a sample that is what I want, and then later in the mix find it might need a little nudge, and then I will go find one of those subtle layers to add to the sample I have to round it out.

Also, depending on genre, I think it is common to find a super short synth sub pop is under the kick "drum".
In the context of the whole track, all of it together really makes the kick.

[Zexila]

Layering
After you've created those separate parts of your kick drum it's time to layer them and fuse them together. While doing this, keep in mind that both parts shouldn't conflict with each other.

Worth pointing out is that this is when you layer stuff using different channels for parts and relying on EQ mostly (also ears and oscilloscope), when merging two sliced parts in one on one channel you have cross fade happening right where conflict is and fish looking kick is result of it by default.

What's the perks of this first one, some would say not that precise way, it's what happens when stuff get's in conflict with each other, that's the key of some clicks/knocks sounding the way they sound, it's accident, nobody can predict that easily how it will sound, but you can hear how it does sound when it does happen, doing things precisely and right way in this case get's you full control, but get's you exactly what you wanted to do, doing this with EQ's, effects, adding things and just moving things by ear get's you more unpredictable results.

That kinda randomness is enough for somebody to never actually nail other people's randomness on their own, as much as they try, analyze, obsess about it, it was sort of a happy accident, unpredictable score, so just make kicks best you can and move on, make music.