Hi guys. I have a serious problem.
I'm not sure I'm describing it correctly, but whenever I'm listening to my mixes next to 'professional' mixes in a similar genre, my mixes always lack a good chunk of 'power', they don't sound solid enough.
I'm guessing the main suspect here is the mids.
My mixes are loud enough, clear enough, they don't sound too muffled. They have enough bass.
But something isn't right. They are not strong!
Here's a track of mine, for example:
https://soundcloud.com/mark-automatika/breath-control
And here are a couple of pro tracks that I'm referring to:
https://soundcloud.com/feedme/feed-me-lonely-mountain
Please help. I'm ready to go to great lengths to make my tracks sound better. But I don't know the direction yet.
Thank you very much in advance!
Mark
Power in the mix? Or what is it...
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- KVRAF
- 6425 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
One thing that strikes me - your track has a lot of reverb on bass, that makes limiters work must longer and never release, kind of.
Bass on reference track is rather dry, if you listen.
One parameter, I think....
Bass on reference track is rather dry, if you listen.
One parameter, I think....
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 15 Oct, 2014
Many thanks for your reply.
I never ever apply even 1% of reverb in anything that has lower frequencies, especially the bass itself...
I never ever apply even 1% of reverb in anything that has lower frequencies, especially the bass itself...
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- KVRian
- 581 posts since 21 Feb, 2005 from Upper Left USA
Too me it just sounds like your mian synths are high passed too much maybe, they're all bright mid-range and lack all that lower mid information that give things punch and power. People read a lot that they should high pass everything except the bass and kick, and usually I find that just leads to these sort of slightly thin sounding mixes. Just an idea, hard to say for sure without seeing exactly what you're doing with your mixdown.
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 15 Oct, 2014
delete please
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 39 posts since 4 May, 2015
They sound quite thin indeed. I think that's really the problem.
I do high pass everything but the kick and the bass, but it's a high pass at around 50 hz, so I don't think this leads to thin sounding synths, does it?
I do high pass everything but the kick and the bass, but it's a high pass at around 50 hz, so I don't think this leads to thin sounding synths, does it?
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- KVRAF
- 3080 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN
I'm ignorant of the genre, but the "pro" reference track, this morning, sounds rather distorted in spots, and very heavily compressed and pumping. Perhaps the distortion is intentionally added, or perhaps it is merely a consequence of the brutal compression.
Dunno if I'd recommend you mimic the "pro" sample, but if so, you could try running the mix slammed real hard thru an "opto" type compressor or plugin. Or any compressor set with "opto" type time constants and real heavy compression slope with a hard knee.
Which results in real heavy pumping, and louder than dammit, and if the release is set a little short you get the intermodulation distortion for free.
Dunno if I'd recommend you mimic the "pro" sample, but if so, you could try running the mix slammed real hard thru an "opto" type compressor or plugin. Or any compressor set with "opto" type time constants and real heavy compression slope with a hard knee.
Which results in real heavy pumping, and louder than dammit, and if the release is set a little short you get the intermodulation distortion for free.
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 15 Oct, 2014
This is not true, I'm just on a shared computer. The ban you applied to my account (mark3000) seems to be a totally arbitrary ban. I will continue posting from this account, that's not a problem - however, that just forces me to violate the rules of this board instead of obeying to them.bluedad wrote:Just to note, the OP has multiple accounts..mark3000 is forsaken87, so he should continue the discussion with that.
Mark
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 15 Oct, 2014
Thanks a lot for your reply!JCJR wrote:I'm ignorant of the genre, but the "pro" reference track, this morning, sounds rather distorted in spots, and very heavily compressed and pumping. Perhaps the distortion is intentionally added, or perhaps it is merely a consequence of the brutal compression.
Dunno if I'd recommend you mimic the "pro" sample, but if so, you could try running the mix slammed real hard thru an "opto" type compressor or plugin. Or any compressor set with "opto" type time constants and real heavy compression slope with a hard knee.
Which results in real heavy pumping, and louder than dammit, and if the release is set a little short you get the intermodulation distortion for free.
First off, this track is actually not really compressed to death, if you compare it to other tracks in a similar genre
Second, I think that applying your suggested way to my mix would make it louder, but not more powerful, because it seems to me that this 'power' (sorry for the confusing term) thing is a frequency problem.
Thank you for your thoughts anyway.
Maybe someone else has something to say about it?
Last edited by forsaken87 on Tue May 05, 2015 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 3080 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN
My first listen this morning was on the sentry 100a speakers in the bedroom, but I listened again this afternoon on the studio system.
Your recording has some compression, but it generally has a wider dynamic range and much cleaner sound, wheras the Lonely Mountain reference track hasn't much dynamic range at all, squashed with loads of pumping, and rather nasty sound.
I don't understand the genre so can't make judgements on the compositional merits, but IMO your track is cleaner and less annoying.
Perhaps there is something other than excessive pumping and distortion which makes the difference between the "punch" you perceive between the two tracks. But that IS a significant difference between your track and the reference track.
Your recording has some compression, but it generally has a wider dynamic range and much cleaner sound, wheras the Lonely Mountain reference track hasn't much dynamic range at all, squashed with loads of pumping, and rather nasty sound.
I don't understand the genre so can't make judgements on the compositional merits, but IMO your track is cleaner and less annoying.
Perhaps there is something other than excessive pumping and distortion which makes the difference between the "punch" you perceive between the two tracks. But that IS a significant difference between your track and the reference track.
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 15 Oct, 2014
Yes, but this problem is present whenever I'm listening to anything next to my tracks, so that's not specific to exactly this reference track and this track of mine.
Maybe the problem is in the mid freqs?
Maybe the problem is in the mid freqs?
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- KVRAF
- 3080 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN
Perhaps midrange-related, dunno.
Have you tried to compare your mixes against reference tracks with Real Time Analyzer or Spectrum Analyzer tools? Some analyzers measure flat presented with white noise, especially many newer FFT based analyzers. And classic Real Time Analyzers would typically measure flat presented with pink noise. Some newer analyzer plugins might have an option to make it display flat to either standard.
Just saying, an analyzer which can be made to measure flat against pink noise might be a little more useful for music spectral comparisons. That is because, in my experience anyway, the brightest commercially-acceptable music will measure about as flat as pink noise. Think over-bright death metal and distorted guitar power pop from the 1980-1990's. If you have a mix that measures BRIGHTER than pink noise, then it is probably too bright for the average listener.
Some genres such as R&B tend to measure "quite dark" with lots of bass and mids, even though some of the songs sound quite bright and clear to the ear. Real talented mixing on some of that stuff to get strong bottom end along with clear-as-a-bell highs.
If you watch the RTA while playing an assortment of reference tracks, and get a feel for what the reference tracks "look like", then you could watch the RTA on your tunes and try to detect differences.
Whenever I mix, I'll occasionally watch the RTA thruout the mix to make sure my ear isn't fooling me, losing perspective. If my song's appearance on the RTA is A LOT different than the typical curve for the genre, it doesn't necessarily tell me what I'm doing wrong, but at least alerts me that something probably needs fixing.
Have you tried to compare your mixes against reference tracks with Real Time Analyzer or Spectrum Analyzer tools? Some analyzers measure flat presented with white noise, especially many newer FFT based analyzers. And classic Real Time Analyzers would typically measure flat presented with pink noise. Some newer analyzer plugins might have an option to make it display flat to either standard.
Just saying, an analyzer which can be made to measure flat against pink noise might be a little more useful for music spectral comparisons. That is because, in my experience anyway, the brightest commercially-acceptable music will measure about as flat as pink noise. Think over-bright death metal and distorted guitar power pop from the 1980-1990's. If you have a mix that measures BRIGHTER than pink noise, then it is probably too bright for the average listener.
Some genres such as R&B tend to measure "quite dark" with lots of bass and mids, even though some of the songs sound quite bright and clear to the ear. Real talented mixing on some of that stuff to get strong bottom end along with clear-as-a-bell highs.
If you watch the RTA while playing an assortment of reference tracks, and get a feel for what the reference tracks "look like", then you could watch the RTA on your tunes and try to detect differences.
Whenever I mix, I'll occasionally watch the RTA thruout the mix to make sure my ear isn't fooling me, losing perspective. If my song's appearance on the RTA is A LOT different than the typical curve for the genre, it doesn't necessarily tell me what I'm doing wrong, but at least alerts me that something probably needs fixing.
