FL Studio 12 Released!

[EvilDragon]

I've always thought a metronome was supposed to play beats

Well, it plays a note that's on the beat, yeah. "Beat" doesn't produce a sound - that word is used as a measurement unit (like centimeters, liters, etc.). Notes produce sound, on the other hand - they're the actual events.

you're not saying that a note is always 4 beats, are you?

Of course not!! Notes have various durations, that are expressed as a number of beats, or a fraction of a beat. Timesig denominator determines how long a note (actual played event) with the length of one beat is going to last at a particular BPM.

[tony tony chopper]

you're not saying that a note is always 4 beats, are you?

Of course not!![/quote]


I'm even more confused than I already was before this thread.


Told differently, FL offers a 2-value setting, which is enough to define the relationship between 3 parameters, namely bars, beats & steps.
A traditional time signature only offers 2 values as well, for the concept of "note", bars, and beats.

So SURELY there is a mapping between the "bar, beat, step" system and "note, bar, beat" system?
Basically, it should be possible to express "note" using bar, beat & step, no?

Timesig denominator determines how long a note (actual played event) with the length of one beat is going to last at a particular BPM

really nothing of this makes sense

first, there are time units defined as "a fraction of a note", as if a note was a time unit, and then there is such a thing as "a note with the length of one beat".
How can a time unit can be explained as a played event? I'm sure it makes sense on some remote planet, but this is earth.

I thought you were kidding when you wrote "a note is an event, defined as a duration between MIDI note on and note off"..
It's like I'm saying "my appointment lasts 4 hours. What is an hour? An hour is 1/4 of an appointment".

[Acid Mitch]

ED , I thought there was note - the length measurement and note - the event.

I think of the length measurement as a note being a bar.
That's why you get 4 quarter notes, 8 8th's ,16 16th's per bar/measure.
Once you start playing with time sig your "bar" isn't necessarily 4 beats of your original measure any more.

Is that not how it works?

Are you saying Hoagy Carmichael and the Stark Reality have been wrong for all these years ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIm60fP_KwY

[maruks]

Told differently, FL offers a 2-value setting, which is enough to define the relationship between 3 parameters, namely bars, beats & steps.
A traditional time signature only offers 2 values as well, for the concept of "note", bars, and beats.

So SURELY there is a mapping between the "bar, beat, step" system and "note, bar, beat" system?
Basically, it should be possible to express "note" using bar, beat & step, no?

the problem is that despite steps_per_beat is a multiplicative inverse of the denominator, in fl studio it still does lengthen the beat. it does not subdivide, as musicians would expect. that is why a few guys including me point out that even if it looks right in the piano roll, it's not having the correct tempo anymore (tempo needs as much halfing as you double the denominator)

(written in a hurry. sorry if i need to correct me later again)

[tooneba]

Changing the denumerator will change the duration of notes being played.

It shouldn't. The length of playing notes are determined by tempo. You can understand by reading this behavior for example in other DAW.
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=56065

[EvilDragon]

Changing the denumerator will change the duration of notes being played.

It shouldn't. The length of playing notes are determined by tempo. You can understand by reading this behavior for example in other DAW.
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=56065

Perhaps I've wrongly expressed myself. I meant only for the metronome in that sentence. Naturally, when you change from 4/4 to 4/8, you WILL want your metronome to click in double-time.

[tony tony chopper]

it's not having the correct tempo anymore (tempo needs as much halfing as you double the denominator)

sure, but the question is, how is 4/4 different from 8/8, by adjusting the piano roll snap.

That is, say that you want 4/8, why is it that this can't be expressed as a time signature of 2/4, and then showing a twice finer grid using the snap?

[EvilDragon]

That is, say that you want 4/8, why is it that this can't be expressed as a time signature of 2/4, and then showing a twice finer grid using the snap?

It CAN be shown like that, but the composer might choose not to do that, because accents are different in 2/4 as opposed to 4/8. That's a whole different thing. Metrically, you get bars of same length in 4/8 and 2/4, that's true. It's a similar case as with sharps and flats in this regard.

[maruks]

i guess, solely because of the bar numbering in the piano roll

[tooneba]

Of course not!! Notes have various durations, that are expressed as a number of beats, or a fraction of a beat. Timesig denominator determines how long a note (actual played event) with the length of one beat is going to last at a particular BPM.

As you can see in the link in my last post, denominator isn't related to BPM. BPM in the computer music is formally determined by quarter note per minute.

[maruks]

ps, i knew i would screw that part up

(tempo needs as much halfing doubling as you double the denominator)

(i forgot one division)


that's what seemed correct to me yesterday

fl_steps_per_beat = fl_16 / music_theory_denominator

corrected_tempo = usual_tempo * 4 / fl_steps_per_beat

[tooneba]

Changing the denumerator will change the duration of notes being played.

It shouldn't. The length of playing notes are determined by tempo. You can understand by reading this behavior for example in other DAW.
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=56065

Perhaps I've wrongly expressed myself. I meant only for the metronome in that sentence. Naturally, when you change from 4/4 to 4/8, you WILL want your metronome to click in double-time.

My bad. I got what you tried to say.

[EvilDragon]

As you can see in the link in my last post, denominator isn't related to BPM. BPM in the computer music is formally determined by quarter note per minute.

Of course it isn't. But it DOES influence how fast the metronome is supposed to tick.

[GuitarGuy420]

hum.. WHY do you only have "one line for D" - if that's not pure masochism? Yes, that's what I'm saying, classic musical notation IS by itself masochistic, at least today.

Clearly, for creating many forms of modern music much of this is unnecessary, as is support for multiple time signatures. If you don't want to implement this stuff in FL Studio that's totally understandable, but why take such a dismissive tone when you so clearly lack understanding?

Just explain that most users don't need these features so it's not a priority. Flaunting your ignorance in this manner is pretty embarrassing.

[chk071]

hum.. WHY do you only have "one line for D" - if that's not pure masochism? Yes, that's what I'm saying, classic musical notation IS by itself masochistic, at least today.

Clearly, for creating many forms of modern music much of this is unnecessary, as is support for multiple time signatures. If you don't want to implement this stuff in FL Studio that's totally understandable, but why take such a dismissive tone when you so clearly lack understanding?

Just explain that most users don't need these features so it's not a priority. Flaunting your ignorance in this manner is pretty embarrassing.

To be honest, i'm actually wondering how many of the people arguing here pro multiple time signatures really need and use them. I listen to various types of music, and i don't remember a track with multiple time signatures in them. I mean, unless you do classical music, or greek folklore, are there really many genres which feature tempo changes in them?