KVR Audio

KingTuck · Post by **KingTuck** » Tue May 05, 2015 1:07 am

Understandable. I use Saurus a lot so the upgrade made sense. Wasn't an amazing deal but I'll get my money's worth. Now a Rayblaster 2 or Gladiator update of similar size to this Saurus upgrade, I would never buy.

Doc Brown · Post by **Doc Brown** » Tue May 05, 2015 1:22 am

zvenx wrote:I am just finding it so hard to spend more money on Tone2 products than I do on u-he products for which I use 100,000 more often, and so much is given away that I don't' feel like I am being penny pinched.
I will, for now at least past on saurus 2 update.
rsp

I'm in the same boat. I guess the whole 60 dollar amount is a definite turn-off. I payed 60 bones for TAL U NO LX which is an entire synth with free updates and it sounds way in the hell more analog than Saurus does IMHO.

Saurus has a ton more features and sound sculpting capabilities but that's not what a Juno 60 emulation is about.

I can understand why the 60 dollars but it just doesn't sit well with me I guess. Tone2 has a business to run and the market will either buy in or not but it seems they are doing alright.

dwozzle · Post by **dwozzle** » Tue May 05, 2015 3:23 am

FWIW, I didn't get Saurus as an analog sim. I got it because I liked the sounds, it has interesting and unique enough features to be fun to program, and it's quick to get around. It doesn't amaze me with analog-ness necessarily, but personally, I'd rather have what it does do than a perfect Juno 60 emu any day.

I didn't have to decide whether the upgrade was worth it, since I'm a new owner, and it was well worth the discounted price I paid to me. Biggest issue is that I also got a very discounted price on Electra2, so when I get a chance to dig into it (haven't yet), there's some possibility those two will end up feeling redundant. We'll see.

KingTuck · Post by **KingTuck** » Tue May 05, 2015 6:23 am

Hey Fluffy, can I ask how long the support took to respond to your inquiry/email? Been a while since I've dealt with their support and I might send an email about something.

db3 · Post by **db3** » Tue May 05, 2015 7:32 am

dwozzle wrote:Is Electra2 fully a superset of Saurus (Saurus doesn't do anything you can't do in Electra2)?

Sure, you can do the same type of stuff in Electra, but routing and component modelling differ on Saurus, so the output is not quite the same. For me Saurus is more immediate and has a more authentic analog tone.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue May 05, 2015 7:50 am

db3 wrote:
dwozzle wrote:Is Electra2 fully a superset of Saurus (Saurus doesn't do anything you can't do in Electra2)?
Sure, you can do the same type of stuff in Electra, but routing and component modelling differ on Saurus, so the output is not quite the same. For me Saurus is more immediate and has a more authentic analog tone.

The filters and other components in Saurus are indeed different to Electra 2 (Currecntly there is Electra 2.1 with even more features).
Saurus includes zero delay feedback filters, AFAIK this is not the case in Electra 2.1.

Saying that you would not need Saurus if you got Electra 2 is saying like you don't need any other VA synth if you already have one.

I have all of the Tone2 synths and i agree that Gladiator 2 could replace Firbird (while for some cases Gladiator 2 is kind if an "overkill" in terms of features maybe). All other Tone2 synths have their own feature set and soundshaping options and are not directly comparable IMO.

I still believe that sonething like a "typical Tone2 sound" does not exist, at least if you create your own patches from scratch.Concerning psychoacoustic processing you could usually switch this off in most Tone2 synths. In Saurus it is applied with the "Boost" button. You could use an external EQ to shape the output to your liking, including an additional bass boost. I had used e.g. PSP NobleQ, Stillwell VibeQ and also the built-in EQs in e.g. Cubase Pro 8 for this task.

FWIW like i already did multiple times in the past for Saurus 2 Beta i again asked to add a simple EQ to Saurus (with 3 or at least 2 bands) but it is still not done yet. There is a Low and Hi Cut now but that is not really the same.
The most simple way would be to add the EQ setting to the new Config menu.

In the past i also added the free Klanghelm IVGI saturation sometimes but now with the built-in saturation feature in Saurus 2 this is not really necessary. Anyway in certain cases external FXs could lead to better results than using built-in ones. For example my favorite Phaser effect is the Arts Acoustic Big Rock which is an emulation of the famous Small Stone Phase-shifter. For a Chorus i love using the free TAL Chorus-LX or ERS Dim-D (= Roland Dimension D).

fluffy_little_something · Tue May 05, 2015 9:18 am

I don't really care if a synth has 0df filters (actually I prefer it doesn't because of the CPU load), but it doesn't say so for Saurus, either, yet it has them. So I doubt that Tone2's entry-level synth has better technology than their top synths. I think it is the other way round, features are taken from the top synths and gradually implemented into Saurus, see the latest browser, the mod matrix options etc.

Regarding analog authenticity, if U-he is the king of analog as people keep saying, then Saurus can't sound that analog because it clearly sounds different from Diva.
I don't know which sounds more analog, I don't remember the sound of my only hardware synth well enough to tell. But judging from songs from that era Saurus does sound more or less analog. But I could also make Electra sound that way. I did a lot of comparisons during the last two days because I was tempted to crossgrade. I decided not to get it, though, because I would have paid so much more for a lot of features I don't need.
What I like more in Electra is the difference between 12 and 24db filters, in Saurus both sound somewhat aggressive and reso, I would even say that Saurus sounds more plasticky than Electra. Martin's JX-8P emulation sounds much warmer and more pleasant than both to my ears.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Tue May 05, 2015 9:28 am

I have Electra2 and still bought Saurus2 after demoing. First time buyer worked out at about £65, figured it was worth that for the pre-sets 500+ alone (yes, I like pre-sets!) and I was actually very impressed with the sound in the demo. I nearly didn't buy it as I have Hive, but I actually like the nice simple layout, its quick and fun top program and low CPU- in many ways I prefer it to Hive for its simplicity.

Apostate · Post by **Apostate** » Tue May 05, 2015 9:31 am

I was kind of baffled by the don't-need-Saurus-if-you-have-Elektra thing (paraphrase). Two different synths...in fact, besides the overall sheen I really don't hear too many similarities between the two. I don't know about Saurus being more "analogue" (sometimes I wonder if certain people use that word with a strict definition in mind), however Elektra most certainly sounds more digital to my ears.

It just seems like a sweeping, callously dismissive thing to say, when from what I've read overall fluffy_little_something doesn't seem to be prone to saying such things.

To my ears, Saurus and Elektra are Tone 2 synthesizers so there's overlap (as there is in all Tone 2s imo), but they're quite distinctive. I wouldn't have recently bought Saurus after being an owner of Elektra for six months if I thought otherwise. Just me.

db3 · Post by **db3** » Tue May 05, 2015 9:38 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Regarding analog authenticity, if U-he is the king of analog as people keep saying, then Saurus can't sound that analog because it clearly sounds different from Diva.

I'm fortunate to have Diva and Saurus. Diva is a great analogue emulation, but that doesn't mean all other VAs should be discounted. They're just different

fluffy_little_something · Tue May 05, 2015 9:46 am

Of course they are not the same, but still I could easily live with the differences if I had Electra alone, that is all I am saying. I would not feel like I was missing anything Saurus offers, to put it that way.

Maybe it's because I am not obsessed with analog sound (whatever that is supposed to be, it's not that all hardware sounded the same). So what I do is program patches and ask myself if they sound good and authentic to me. And that approach gave me similar results in both Tone2 synths mentioned.

Apostate · Post by **Apostate** » Tue May 05, 2015 10:03 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Of course they are not the same, but still I could easily live with the differences if I had Electra alone, that is all I am saying. I would not feel like I was missing anything Saurus offers, to put it that way.

Maybe it's because I am not obsessed with analog sound (whatever that is supposed to be, it's not that all hardware sounded the same). So what I do is program patches and ask myself if they sound good and authentic to me. And that approach gave me similar results in both Tone2 synths mentioned.

I think I get it now, thanks for explaining. I know that if I had a desert island choice between them, I would choose Elektra, because I could at least come within a world's proximity of achieving many of the sounds in Saurus, where I'm not sure I would have as many options with the latter.

But I have both and plan on keeping them, along with my Diva, Arturia, Monark....

2ZrgE · Post by **2ZrgE** » Tue May 05, 2015 11:25 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Of course they are not the same, but still I could easily live with the differences if I had Electra alone, that is all I am saying. I would not feel like I was missing anything Saurus offers, to put it that way.

Maybe it's because I am not obsessed with analog sound (whatever that is supposed to be, it's not that all hardware sounded the same). So what I do is program patches and ask myself if they sound good and authentic to me. And that approach gave me similar results in both Tone2 synths mentioned.

Even if Electra would allow the exact same sounds as Saurus, people still would buy the latter I guess. VST - there's so much marketing involved...

fluffy_little_something · Tue May 05, 2015 11:33 am

Probably. I think the user interface has a lot to do with the way a synth is perceived. Behind that, though, Tone2 synths probably share a lot of code. It's the same programmer, so I assume he has his way of doing filters and what not. He won't reinvent the wheel just because he makes a new synth. He will stick to what he knows from his previous work.

fluffy_little_something · Tue May 05, 2015 11:46 am

One thing I don't like about the new version are the knobs, the shadow lines are too strong, that is confusing somehow, depending on the angle you look at your screen.

Tone 2 - Saurus 2 is available