Arturia's new plugins : Solina V and Matrix 12V

[deltaMACHINE]

the right LFOSWEEP patch like in the Video at 1:28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDudA07lbLE

[deltaMACHINE]

the SPARKLES patch like the Hardware

[beely]

sorry beely but the patches are not right !

Hey dM - thanks for the feedback.

The parameters should be converted exactly as in the syx files - I used a variety of sysex editors including MidiQuest and SoundDiver to make tests and make sure values were being converted correctly. If there are patches in there that you can see where settings are incorrect from the syx, please let me know and I'll investigate.

If you can tweak the patches to make them sound closer to the hardware, then that's great and as already stated if we can narrow them down to get them as close as possible that'd be even better.

[beely]

the right LFOSWEEP patch like in the Video at 1:28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDudA07lbLE

Preferably, it would be better if you didn't upload random single patches - if you want to tackle a full bank, it's far easier to manage to go through and upload a full tweaked bank - otherwise this thread will get littered with hundreds of single patches and I'll have to trawl through it, work out which banks the sounds came from and update individual patches and it will be difficult to manage...

But it's great to have someone who can compare to the hardware and tweak, so I really appreciate your help on this.

[deltaMACHINE]

Hey beely,

i use this here http://xplorer.programmer.free.fr

Your converted Syx patches are not all wrong!

Just some patches needs fine tuning and i don't have the hardware i just use my ears from what i have learned in the past.

Some errors in your patches shows that your converter isn't exact.

I will try my best to make a good patch bank for the great Matrix 12 V but i will make such patches and multis i like not all of the patches!

Thank you for your patches!

[beely]

i use this here http://xplorer.programmer.free.fr

Like I say, I already have software to load and display Xpander/M12 syx files.
I don't have that particular software, but I am verifying that patches loaded from the syx into my editors have the same parameters as the converted patches in the M12V.

Your converted Syx patches are not all wrong!
Just some patches needs fine tuning and i don't have the hardware i just use my ears from what i have learned in the past.

Yes. Like I already said above, it seems obvious to me (like you say) on some patches that some modulation amounts are likely stronger in the plugin than they should be (even though the values are "correct").

For example, If the VCO1 mod in the SYX file is 32, all I can do is set the same mod to 32 in the M12V - if the modulation amounts in the plugin are not the same as the hardware, it will sound a bit "off" and this is as I say, not a fault in the conversion, but a consequences of the plugin not having the same exact behaviour, parameter for parameter, as the hardware. I've certainly found a few of these, and hand tweaked them in my own personal copies - as I wrote above.

This is, as I say, probably the reason that the M12 presets that come with the M12V *do not have the same exact parameters* as in the SYX file versions of the presets - they have been (I'm guessing) hand-tweaked by Arturia to sound closer to the hardware. For instance, the "TOTAHORN" preset in the hardware/SYX file has a filter setting of "13", but in the Arturia M12V version of that sound, it's set to "17".

There's not a lot I can do to hand tweak these into different, but closer-sounding values, without access to the original hardware, or without a lot of work that really isn't that worthwhile to do.

Some errors in your patches shows that your converter isn't exact.

It *should* be ok, and if it's not, it's an issue I can investigate. Remember, the purpose of the conversion is to get a setting of XX for parameter Y set to the same XX in the plugin. Any difference in values is a conversion problem, and any difference in sound between the plugin and what the patch should sound like, if the parameter is set to the same value, is a plugin problem.

If you find an issue of a parameter of XX coming through in the converted patch as anything other than XX, then it would be useful to point it out if you come across it so I can look. I will go through the patches bit by bit and double check some, but obviously I can't compare every patch for all parameters - I can just make sure in test cases I am translating the parameters correctly and I've done that, but of course it's always possible for things to slip through.

I was confident enough in the conversion process to actually get to doing the conversions properly, and it should be pretty good. It doesn't mean the plugin will render the patches identically.

I will try my best to make a good patch bank for the great Matrix 12 V but i will make such patches and multis i like not all of the patches!

Ok - if all you are doing is not referencing the hardware, and saying (like I have done) in some instances "Hmm, that doesn't sound quite right to me, I'm going to tweak these few parameters and now it sounds more likely to be correct" then I get that - and already made the point about that and have done that on a few patches (like, maybe 1 out of 10 patches perhaps) but I've not shared those, because I don't know it's "correct", it's just an assumption based on my taste .

It would be better to find someone with the hardware who can actually tweak it to where it's identical, and offer those up as an updated, more authentic version.

But of course, feel free to share presets done in this way here if you like (maybe I will do the same) and it might be that over time we can refine the set. There's still value in having these patches available, even though it would be better if the plugin rendered the patches with the same settings identically to the hardware.

So - if anyone finds conversion issues where parameters are clearly wrong, let me know. Otherwise if a patch sounds wrong but the parameters are correct between the M12V patch and the syx file, then all we can do is tweak by ear on your own copy until it sounds good to you. Maybe we could compile some tweaked banks as we go through the patches bit by bit over time, or something...

[beely]

Also on the Arturia forums, user "DBS" wrote on the M12V:

"Arturia did a good job. Some sounds are really hard to distinguish … between hard and software.

But there are limits. You can not expect to get a perfect match if parameters are equal. You will also have more and more differences if you use more and more modulations. Then it is very hard to match sounds on both.

Also the multimode filter sounds different if you use phase filter etc. and if you use extreme parameter settings.

It also depends on how picky you are. "

..which broadly sums up my feelings and experiences based on getting these presets in and comparing them in the plugin (which is also I think the same point deltaMachine is making) In essence, to get the patches to sound the same as the hardware, manual tweaking will be required, and this is down to the M12V plugin implementation.

[T-CM11]

Using the latest version of the plugin, vst and standalone, windows 7 x64, it crashes when I import these presets.

[DuX]

I'm still trying to get over my selling of Matrix-6. Don't ask... Versatility, yes. Programming - haard, but when you envision it in your head it's much easier. Loved it to the bone. But life has forced me to sell it and regret it just a few years afterwards.

As for Arturia's version of M-12, well, most of the people know by now their emulations are not so good, but on the other hand they are good. Not as emulations but as VA synths. It's up to you to decide if you want a faithful emulation or do away with a really nice sounding, old school VA synth.

I choose to use other synths, if you ask me. I'm a bit bored with old school synths right now [right now being about 10 years now]. Need something new to sparkle my creativity. The best cure is going modular, real analogue. Hands on experience, plug in - plug out. There's nothing easier and more rewarding than that.

Cheers!

[T-CM11]

I'm still trying to get over my selling of Matrix-6. Don't ask... Versatility, yes. Programming - haard, but when you envision it in your head it's much easier. Loved it to the bone. But life has forced me to sell it and regret it just a few years afterwards.

For Windows:
http://www.ob6000.de/
http://m.bareille.free.fr/synlibmx6/synlibmx6.htm
For OSX:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~cornutt/Music/W ... _home.html
Win+OSX:
MidiQuest
For iOS:
http://mididesigner.com/qa/3951/layout- ... m-matrix-6

Weren't there any a few years ago?

[DuX]

I sold my Matrix-6 14 years ago. There was only a librarian for Atari computers at the time and I used it at times. It helped, yes, but I found the experience better just editing the sounds directly for some perverted reason. It helps when you have all the synthesis parameters in your head, knowing what they do. It still "haunts" me to this day. I find it too easy to edit sounds on any synth. But that's only good, eh?

[boombaxx]

Mine crashes to

[beely]

Mine crashes to

I'm on a Mac system here and the patches load fine.

It seems there are other Windows users who can load the patch files, so make sure you've uncompressed them without corrupting the text files (maybe try a different unzipper program?)

Note the .matrix files are saved by the M12V itself (in other words, I convert the syx files into M12V preset files directly, then use the M12V's export bank function to export a full bank into the .matrix file.)

Otherwise, you'll need to give me something to go on to investigate (what version of the M12V you are using, what hosts you've tried it in, does it do the same in all hosts/standalone, what Windows systems you are using and so on...)

I can try uploading a bank of single patch files (ie, not a .matrix whole bank) and seeing if those of you having problems can load all/some/none of those..?

Edit: For those having problems, try some/all of these (small random collection of presets): Converted_SYX.zip (31Kb)

I don't know offhand where Arturia stores presets on a Windows system, but try these and let me know if you can load them ok, or some crash and some load, or none load...

[T-CM11]

It seems there are other Windows users who can load the patch files, so make sure you've uncompressed them without corrupting the text files (maybe try a different unzipper program?)

Are they (=Windows people that can load the patches without crashing) using an older version of M12V?

[mchannemann]

path in win7 is C:\ProgramData\Arturia\Matrix-12 V\preset
I could load them only the marimba patch was extremly loud non usable