Behringer U-PHORIA UMC1820/UMC404

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Michael - thanks for the info, which clears some of the issues, but also leaves a little room for ambiguity...
Please can you clarify:
mlapke wrote:There were hardware mods implemented to ensure stable operation at 192 kHz. It’s also worth mentioning that updating the firmware for the UMC404 will NOT allow it to perform at 192 kHz the way the UMC404HD does.
Does this mean :
- a forthcoming (?) firmware update will not allow 192kHz AT ALL, or
- it will allow 192kHz, but not quite the same way as in the HD model ?

Sorry if this sounds pedantic, but I've spent 25 years among marketeers and the like, who are quite adept at saying things that imply one thing but mean another!!

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daxit wrote:Michael - thanks for the info, which clears some of the issues, but also leaves a little room for ambiguity...
Please can you clarify:
mlapke wrote:There were hardware mods implemented to ensure stable operation at 192 kHz. It’s also worth mentioning that updating the firmware for the UMC404 will NOT allow it to perform at 192 kHz the way the UMC404HD does.
Does this mean :
- a forthcoming (?) firmware update will not allow 192kHz AT ALL, or
- it will allow 192kHz, but not quite the same way as in the HD model ?

Sorry if this sounds pedantic, but I've spent 25 years among marketeers and the like, who are quite adept at saying things that imply one thing but mean another!!
I'd say it's clear that the UMC404HD has modified hardware and is capable of 192kHz operation, whilst the UMC404 will only ever go to 96kHz.

The v2.23 driver software link posted earlier is for the Windows driver. The firmware is currently at 1.12 and they appear to be unified drivers for several devices. I'm running them on a UMC204.

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daxit,

Dogzilla is right and I felt like my statement was crystal clear. The UMC404 runs up to 96 kHz and the UMC404HD runs up to 192 kHz.
The hardware modifications made to the UMC404HD allow it to run properly at 192 kHz, and the UMC404 does not have these modifications. A firmware update won't change that.

Best,

Michael LAPKE
Specialist, Customer Experience, Engagement
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Best,

Michael LAPKE
Specialist, Customer Experience, Engagement
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER

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Thank you so much, it's most appreciated to have direct support here from you guys.
My sounddesign: Synth1/Ex5/D-50 patches https://goo.gl/zE3pkk
My stuff: W10x64i7 15" laptop, Reaper/Cantabile3+Synth1+Avenger on stage+NordStage2+Samson Graphite 49
Loving new VPS Avenger! Check my skins! https://goo.gl/MBNJHj

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Interestingly I bought a UMC404 last week, not branded as HD, but it does go to 192kHz and the logo on the bottom left of the fascia says 192kHz where it says 96kHz in the publicity shots.

Perhaps there was an interim update to the original 404 that has caused a bit of confusion as to what it is capable of?

I have to say it works really well at low latency on my mid-2012 MacBook Pro. I'm happy with it so far :)

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I've done some concerts now and noticed now and then a pop. I tried changing the latency but the pop intensity stays, so I think it's a driver problem.
That's a pitty, because otherwise it's good hardware.
I hope Behringer will work on it to improve.
My sounddesign: Synth1/Ex5/D-50 patches https://goo.gl/zE3pkk
My stuff: W10x64i7 15" laptop, Reaper/Cantabile3+Synth1+Avenger on stage+NordStage2+Samson Graphite 49
Loving new VPS Avenger! Check my skins! https://goo.gl/MBNJHj

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i am really tempted to buy this U-PHORIA UMC404 but before i do can somebody please tell me if the 4 inserts at the rear are for synths, or is it just for effects and compressors etc as it states on the Behringer website? (very poorly explained i may add!)

i have a Roland Gaia SH01 and a Novation UltraNova, i want to insert the Gaia in 2 conections (stereo) and the Ultranova in the other 2 Stereo and then be able to monitor/record in Ableton Live 9

sorry, but im rather new to all this, most inserts on other cards CLEARLY state that their inputs are for synths drum machines etc....'but not Behringer'!! :-/

i

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Hi Guys,

Here's my updated review. Still very happy after a half year of (live) use at this level.

I bought the UMC404 last week and I'm very happy with it.
As for basic soundcards, this is the best quality for this money I guess.
I hope it goes a long way. But for some Behringer products that I have, I must say the built quality is mostly good. (not all Behringer products are quality dough, but I've bought worse from other manufacturers also ;-) )

I'm on W8.1 latest driver with Alienware 15' i7 8gb.

Pro
  • Very very low latency, I have 64 samples at lowest latency setting. No crackles. UPDATE: the SC gives every now and then a crackle. Don't know why, but it's settings independant.
  • Good quality inputs and sockets.
  • Comes with lots of free vst software, if you need it
  • USB powered ! (no extra adapter needed on the road)
  • Direct monitoring knob, you can check how low the latency is !
  • Very easy to install, no problem with drivers on W8.1
Con
  • No decent manual
  • No thru setting in the software for the channels, directly from input to output (I use this to mix my other live synth with the soundcard, So that's an extra pair of cables spared on stage.). So I made an extra channel in my DAW for it. This way I could check the latency with the direct monitoring and it's great !!! :) I'm very happy.
So I was very surpriced with the ultra low latency on my windows 8.1. (umc404 firmware upgrade 1.12)

I made a semi-leather wrap around it and attached it with velcro to my keyboard stand, it's great live!

I think Behringer is getting better and better and look at the nice innovative products they offer !
My sounddesign: Synth1/Ex5/D-50 patches https://goo.gl/zE3pkk
My stuff: W10x64i7 15" laptop, Reaper/Cantabile3+Synth1+Avenger on stage+NordStage2+Samson Graphite 49
Loving new VPS Avenger! Check my skins! https://goo.gl/MBNJHj

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mlapke wrote:daxit,

Dogzilla is right and I felt like my statement was crystal clear. The UMC404 runs up to 96 kHz and the UMC404HD runs up to 192 kHz.
The hardware modifications made to the UMC404HD allow it to run properly at 192 kHz, and the UMC404 does not have these modifications. A firmware update won't change that.

Best,

Michael LAPKE
Specialist, Customer Experience, Engagement
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
Mr Lapke,
I would like to install W10. Are the drivers compatible with it?
Is it possible to use wasapi and would it give lower latency/no glitches?
I see the drivers for UMC404 and HD are the same, right? (I'm asking, because I'm planning to buy the HD also, that way I have a backup in live situations)
My sounddesign: Synth1/Ex5/D-50 patches https://goo.gl/zE3pkk
My stuff: W10x64i7 15" laptop, Reaper/Cantabile3+Synth1+Avenger on stage+NordStage2+Samson Graphite 49
Loving new VPS Avenger! Check my skins! https://goo.gl/MBNJHj

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Hi - I just got the UMC404 HD to use with Sonar Professional. I downloaded the driver from Behringer's website, and all works well except for serious latency issues. There's almost half a second delay between playing a note and hearing it back. Anyone else have and fix this problem? Many thanks for any light you can shed on this! (I'm using Windows 8.1)

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neo36uk wrote:i am really tempted to buy this U-PHORIA UMC404 but before i do can somebody please tell me if the 4 inserts at the rear are for synths, or is it just for effects and compressors etc as it states on the Behringer website? (very poorly explained i may add!)

i have a Roland Gaia SH01 and a Novation UltraNova, i want to insert the Gaia in 2 conections (stereo) and the Ultranova in the other 2 Stereo and then be able to monitor/record in Ableton Live 9

i
"Inserts" are not the same as "inputs". If you want to record your two synths (in stereo) you would use the four inputs on the front of the unit. The inserts on the back are used to send out AND return an audio signal - say to effects box or compressor - just using one connection. (You can send and receive audio using the same 1/4" socket and TRS cable). You would do this if you wanted to send/return audio to a favourite external effects unit, perhaps something not offered by Ableton. Hope that helps.

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I used a Lexicon Omega from 2008 until recently. I was annoyed about latency issues. One moment it was fine, the next I had a huge delay from when I plucked a guitar string until I heard it in my headphones. Also, the lexicon Omega often just disconnected until I unplugged it and plugged it in again. You can't record like that. I also didn't like the outrageous design. I like square and black devices in my studio. Sound wise the Omega did quite well at 48 KHz. No clicking or distortion. But there were many crashes. Often I used the WASAPI setting as the ASIO drivers sucked. WASAPI was more stable and had less latency. Figure that.

I run Reaper on an ACER Aspire 5742G laptop, i5-480M processor with 8GB RAM.

I took the plunge after reading some very positive reviews of the UMC404. Mind you, they currently sell the UMC404H. The 'H' means that the unit can go up to 192KHz. The standard UMC404 only goes to 96KHz. But just to confuse you folks more, my 404 does go up to 192KHz although there's a 'H' missing on the unit. But the packaging and everything else says 192KHz and I have tried that setting via Behringer's ASIO driver.

I am a wee bit disappointed with this unit. Yes, it worked straight out of the box and it's very easy to use. Yes, it looks great and the build is very solid. Well done Behringer. It took me a while to adjust the settings to get a click and pop-free signal by reducing the sample rate and increasing latency. I can't get 256 samples without the occasional click or pop. At 512 it works fine. But that was the setting I had with the Lexicon Omega. No advantage here except that the UMC404 has never had any latency whatsoever. The more tracks I use, the harder the system works - but still no latency - only clicks and pops. I thought that the USB 2 of the UMC404 would be advantageous compared to the slow USB 1 of the Lexicon - but in the end, there was no difference. The only advantage was that I have had [b]zero latency[/b] with the UMC404. I have swapped latency of the Lexicon with the odd pop and click of the UMC404 depending on the sample rate and how much the system is pushed. But to be fair, those pops and clicks usually only occur when the CPU is maxed out when specific VSTs load. Some VSTs can bring the system to a halt. I've since deleted them. For example the WOK Brakeback Mangler makes everything crash. There are many plugins out there that shouldn't have seen the light of day. Some can't handle higher sampling rates etc. Even for a free plugin, you'd expect worry-free operation.

Another annoyance was that the input of the UMC404 clips easily. The lexicon could be driven harder without immediate distortion. Also, the standard output levels of the UMC404 does not suit Reaper. I had to turn down the master input volumes in Behringer's ASIO panel. Not a big deal but it [b]does not remember[/b] this setting once I exit Reaper.

Soundwise I was split at first. The Omega has more treble and a soft bass response but lacks mid range. It's as if someone turned on an exciter and made the tone sweeter. The UMC404 has less treble and bass but the overall tone is neutral, clearer with a little more mid range. The bass is tighter and the treble clearer. At first I didn't like the sound of the UMC404 but after spending some time comparing the two units, the UMC404 sounds more natural than the Lexicon Omega. And that's essentially what I want from a sound card: to be able to hear the actual, unadulterated sound of what I am producing.

Overall, I like the UMC404 more than the Lexicon as it has zero latency - obviously. I can deal with the crackle and pop noises by making sure my CPU isn't maxed out by avoiding certain VSTs. The UMV404 has not crashed once compared to the Lexicon which crashed multiple times during a session. For the money I paid, it's not a bad unit. If I had dedicated USB ports instead of a root hub (typical for laptops), I'd also get better performance out of it. With the Lexicon I often had to unplug the USB keyboard as it shared the same USB resources with the Lexicon.

I also recently upgraded to Win10 which has improved latency and reduced crashes. So it's important to keep your system up to date, and, get rid of poorly designed VSTs that max out your system and crash.

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I've been waiting for the UMC1820 also. When available, I'll be going for it. I own a UMC404HD model presently. As mentioned before by another reviewer, the unit software is an online download. The only issue I had was with the "free" Traction DAW that is offered. This free version does not download on either of my 64 bit PC's (windows 7 and windows 8.1). I downloaded it to one of my old 32 bit clunker's just to check it out. It seemed OK, but didn't impress me enough to pay for an upgrade that works with 64 bit computers. Also I might mention that you get a booklet, not a full blown user manual. These are really minor issues. The unit is simple and straight forward enough that it really wasn't necessary. The drivers were loaded without a hitch I am using Reaper as my DAW. The Reaper doesn't get the "eye candy" award of the century, but is a very stable, powerful, utilitarian DAW. It married up with the UMC404 smoothly and quickly. Berhinger hit it out of the park on this. I could go on and on about the features, the pre-amps etc. Once everything is plugged in and levels are matched up, it just does it's job flawlessly with little attention other than mic level adjustments. It's laid out in a well thought, small, ergonomic package. I'm gonna tick a lot of people off here, but in my opinion, it blows the Focusrite Scarlet and others away. I am now waiting for the availability of the UMC1820. Considered the Presonnas unit, but I think the Behinger will be worth the wait.

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Regarding the inserts on the back of the UMC404, is there any way to use them to process soft synths? I'm trying to use them with an effects unit, and I can apply the effects to input signals, but nothing generated by my soft synths? I guess this means they occur just after the inputs in the signal path, but I think this is a real weakness if there is no way to apply them before the outputs.

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That's exactly how inserts are supposed to work, i.e. on the input channels. I suppose it's a weakness if you want to do what you are wanting to do, but that's their traditional place in the input chain.

Having said that, it's certainly not unusual to have them on the outputs of a mixer, but in both cases (inputs and outputs) they are electrically part of the signal chain.

I've not seen any interfaces with inserts on the outputs, at least not at this price point, which isn't to say they don't exist.

The only way to do what you want to do (assuming you want to process the signal and then feed it back in to your DAW) is to route the synth you want to process to output 3 and/or output 4 and feed the output of your FX unit back to the input(s).

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