One Synth Challenge #75: PG-8X (Jasinski Wins!)

[stardustmedia]

Oh, missed that one... thanks.

So, I understand it right, that the saved parameter values within the Logic session will be fully recovered and it will sound the same as with the older version?

[mcaitch]

According to my basic testing, the parameter changes in PG-8X are saved within a track. Saving the patch name doesn't work so far.

Unfortunately, I have no comparison to the previous version since that one didn't work properly on my system.

[RichardSemper]

Finally it's all about trust. Respectively envy may lead to false assumptions. I'm not (yet) very good at sound design, and when I heard some competitors with an amazing set of sounds from one synth, I also first thought: "Is this really just that one synth? Cheating?" But that's my problem. I just have to get better at sound design, because I somehow believe that most of the participants are really doing a great job at sound design

Well stated! BTW, look out for project files. Some people (Jasinski, Richard Semper I think, me and some others) sometimes release their project file, and you can see what's going on under the hood.

Yep, some of us do always try to post project files, the link is in the soundcloud track description. Sometimes its not feasible like with Eclipsis where freezing large number of tracks made it way too large. Plus not everyone has the same DAW so cannot read the files.
The other thing to watch for (and may be more useful to most) is many of us like to also post the patches. Then you can play the sounds for yourself!

Distortion and filters have always been a grey area. Personally have never used either so far except within the synth itself. Good filter sweeps can often be achieved within the synth's filters using automation, and its always fun to see if you can achieve the effect you desire within the synths parameters.
EQ, reverb, compression etc are essential in the production of any track however, and serve to improve the mix and to sweeten many a dry sounding synth. However, when a synth has these effects built in I try to use the synth's effects in preference to external ones.

[do_androids_dream]

These last few posts highlight why I lost interest in participating in OSC's a long while back - all these rules go way too far into hindering creativity.

[Meakaale]

Maybe there should be a vote?

Here's what I think:

Allowed with moderate use:
Compressor
Limiter
Reverb
Stereo enhancers
Delay
EQ?

Not allowed:
Chorus
Flanger
Distortion
Waveshaping
Squareisers

[stardustmedia]

Maybe there should be a vote?

Here's what I think:

I'll enhance some points (some of them are already mentioned in the rules though) and change some others (e.g. the stereo enhancer)

Allowed with no limits:
All Internal FX (within the plugin)

Allowed with moderate use:
Compressor
Limiter
Reverb
Delay
EQ & Hi-/Locut
Filter
Saturation (kind of distortion)

Not allowed:
Chorus
Flanger
Phaser
Distortion
Waveshaping
Squareisers
Bitcrusher
Stereo enhancers

[Rcl]

These last few posts highlight why I lost interest in participating in OSC's a long while back - all these rules go way too far into hindering creativity.

Totally disagree. Its the limitations that force creativity.

[RichardSemper]

These last few posts highlight why I lost interest in participating in OSC's a long while back - all these rules go way too far into hindering creativity.

Totally disagree. Its the limitations that force creativity.

Agreed. The most fun is finding ways to get the synth to do what you want, and it definitely improves your skills with sound design.

[stardustmedia]

These last few posts highlight why I lost interest in participating in OSC's a long while back - all these rules go way too far into hindering creativity.

Totally disagree. Its the limitations that force creativity.

I also disagree, but not totally. Limitations force you to be creative with the synth itself, that doesn't mean it forces creativity during workflow or production automatically.

That's highly a matter of taste. I know some producers, they get new plugins just for the sake of their presets. Doesn't matter if they already have very similar sounding plugins. The other new thing pushes their creativity. They want to be fast at searching sounds, not first designing them.

I'm somewhere in between. For fast tracking of my ideas I use presets. The first one that doesn't sound too bad and fits the song/idea is taken. Later on, I might research a new preset, or tweak the used one, and in some cases I design the sound then from scratch.

But getting lost in sound designing can bring up new ideas that you won't get when flipping thru presets. At least that's true for myself. The song tend to go then in another direction, than initially thought, but that's ok for my own productions. Paying customers are different story again

[do_androids_dream]

These last few posts highlight why I lost interest in participating in OSC's a long while back - all these rules go way too far into hindering creativity.

Totally disagree. Its the limitations that force creativity.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge advocate of the concept of limitation forcing creativity. I just think the rules in these OSC's go too far and end up hindering the very thing it's supposed to be pushing for.

[do_androids_dream]

These last few posts highlight why I lost interest in participating in OSC's a long while back - all these rules go way too far into hindering creativity.

Totally disagree. Its the limitations that force creativity.

I also disagree, but not totally. Limitations force you to be creative with the synth itself, that doesn't mean it forces creativity during workflow or production automatically.

Exactly. I very often bounce things to audio then do further cutting up/editing/general fuckery with it. This doesn't magically change the base sound of the synth into something else. Modulation and distortion doesn't change the sound of the synth into something completely different most of the time either. I find all these rules completely deflating - it works against wanting to participate for me.

[stardustmedia]

The challenge is about one synth, not about song creativity. I think OSC does exactly that. It forces you to be creative about the synth itself and get all sounds "needed" from this one synth.

Good sounds will automatically give you a ideas for your song/melody (at least that's how my mind works). A bad song no matter how good the created sounds are, is just a bad song. And probably won't get much points during voting. It is a little vicious circle, yes.

Therefore I can understand you if your style of music production is based more on effects and/or DAW based possibilities than on the raw sound itself, then this challenge might be hindering you too much. Unless the challenged synth has a lot of FX onboard, and many other possibilities that the "normal" synth doesn't have

Those DAW-based features/possibilities aren't changing the sound itself, but the synth itself wouldn't be able to create them as they might sound afterwards. Like reversing audio.

But think about automating the synth. That opens up way more possibilities. For instance the envelopes are used up or are too fast for a filter sweep. Just automate the cutoff. That's what long time ago good keyboarders did during recording, though manually

[do_androids_dream]

The challenge is about one synth, not about song creativity. I think OSC does exactly that. It forces you to be creative about the synth itself and get all sounds "needed" from this one synth.

Yeah I do get that. I guess I just hoped that it would be less restrictive in nature to allow a more open ended attitude to sound design. It's turned into a great community event here though - don't want to put any dampeners on that - so I will quit moaning now

ps. I do use shitloads of automation when I'm in the mood for Autechre levels of movement in a track so yeah, I do use automation! lol

[stardustmedia]

The challenge is about one synth, not about song creativity. I think OSC does exactly that. It forces you to be creative about the synth itself and get all sounds "needed" from this one synth.

Yeah I do get that. I guess I just hoped that it would be less restrictive in nature to allow a more open ended attitude to sound design. It's turned into a great community event here though - don't want to put any dampeners on that - so I will quit moaning now

ps. I do use shitloads of automation when I'm in the mood for Autechre levels of movement in a track so yeah, I do use automation! lol

I admit, my first thoughts were also "naaah, too restrictive, no chorus... meeeh!"
But I gave it a try and found it quite releaving, when I first focus on designing some drum sounds and create a basic cool groove. Then the next sound, then the next, without really specifying what kind of sound. And each new sound I created automatically triggered the appropriate idea on how to implement that new sound.

[Skelpolu]

Guys, just came back to check out other submissions and then this.
Rule of thumb: Make the best out of one synthesizer without letting the sound glide away from the original synth. Done.

Other blabbering is completely useless in my honest opinion as you can't define what's allowed and what not without a BILLION exceptions. I use distortion in Renoise - To simulate soft saturation. I use Stereoenhancers - To create depth from what is already existing / making a track mono even though it would usually be in stereo. Basically, nothing I've mentioned changed the synthesizers sound and all sounds are still produced by solely the synthesizer.

How about we just enjoy the ride and see what we can make out of one synthesizer? I am pretty sure that this question started OSC to begin with.

Let's get back to work, guys.