One Synth Challenge #75: PG-8X (Jasinski Wins!)

[stardustmedia]

Yeah, that would be a solution I could live with

But working, naaah, I have fun

[wagtunes]

Well, 36 years of frustration finally came to a head this week so my apologies to everyone for my jackass behavior. No excuses, moving on.

I did something different for this month's challenge because of the comments on my poor playing ability in regard to timing. Yes, I have terrible timing. Always did. Puts me at a terrible disadvantage with these things.

So this month I sequenced the entire track with very few exceptions that I made sure I quantized to death, thus the title of my track. I even went as far as going into the MIDI editor and moving things into place if the quantizer didn't work exactly right. Any criticisms of my "timing" this month are purely in my choice of rhythms.

Here is the track breakdown.

PG8X OSC Track Overview

DAW – Cubase 7.07

18 instances of PG8X

All sounds programmed from scratch.

Track List

Track 1 – Kick – Cubase Studio EQ and Compressor
Track 2 – Snare – Cubase Studo EQ and Compressor
Track 3 – Hi Hat – Cubase Studio EQ and Compressor
Track 4 – Bass 1 – No FX
Track 5 – Bass 2 – No FX

**Notes On Tracks 4 and 5** Initially sequenced using Reaktor's VSS 2.6 Sequencer and then MIDI split between bass and treble into two tracks in order to stereo split.

Track 6 – MW Filter Lead – No FX
Track 7 – HL Unison – No FX
Track 8 – MW Filter Strings – No FX
Track 9 – Square Filter Lead – Cubase Stereo Delay
Track 10 – MW LFO Filter – No FX
Track 11 – Sequence – Voxengo Curve EQ that came packaged with Cubase
Track 12 – Bass Sequence – No FX

** Note On Track 11 and 12 ** Also programmed through Reaktor's VSS 2.6 Sequencer.

Track 13 – Cross Mod Lead – Cubase Stereo Delay
Track 14 – MW Filter Lead 2 – Cubase Stereo Delay
Track 15 – Bells – No FX
Track 16 – Filter Sweep – Cubase Stereo Delay
Track 17 – Rez Synth – Cubase Stereo Delay
Track 18 – Square Drops – Cubase Ping Pong Delay

Output buss – Vladg/Sound's Limiter6, a free 3rd party plugin.

Track Length: 3:04

Finally, here is the track. I am extremely curious to see if I do any better with this one than I've done in my first few which were nothing short of dreadful.

Please feel free to comment. In fact, I encourage any and all, good and bad. Because I'm not going to get any better as a producer if I don't know what the hell I'm doing wrong.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... ack-osc-75

[Mojo42]

The challenge is about one synth, not about song creativity. I think OSC does exactly that. It forces you to be creative about the synth itself and get all sounds "needed" from this one synth.

That`s how I also understand the concept of OSC. I think the intresting thing about it is to create something one normally would not create, because of the limits. In general good music is not dependent on the use of as many effects as possible, but more on composition and arrangement. So it should be possible to create a cool song with one synth only plus it`s internal effects if there are some and it is possible as we see at all those really amazing entries each time

If one thinks the he/she can only produce a cool song with 1000`s of effects then he/she should consider again about the basic principles of music: Harmony

Better deal with music theory than with "how can I polish my track with effects that no one recognizes that I can`t play a single chord on my keyboard". That`s my two cent.

To all of those who produce such "unbelievable" great sounding patches: Would be cool if you would decide to share, alone for all others who wish to learn something.

Back to topic:
I started to make a couple of patches and used them already. The problem: Already at the second instance my "track" stuttered

Oh my god!!!

This is not very promising. I`m afraid I have to skip this OSC too and simply have to wait for a better opportunity. It seems that I either need a new pc or I can only join if a synthesizer is selected which is very economically concerning CPU usage. That`s a pity.

But on the plus side: Wow this Synth sound damned good!!! I hopefully can need it partially for some other projects at least or later when I will have bought a new pc somewhen in the future.

My plan for this OSC: I anyway started to make patches and anyhow I like the challenge to get out some sounds out of the PG-8X and so will go on with that and will donate a soundbank at least. Apart from that I`m looking forward to all the cool tracks you all will create again

Cheers
Yvonne

[stardustmedia]

@Yvonne

Not entirely true. Because there are music genres that live from effects, from experimental stuff. From "sounds" that almost no classic synth can generate on its own. Autechre for instance is faaaaaar away from harmonies and the traditional melodies. They live from experimenting and pushing the sounds, and gear to their limits, probably also over their limits

From the more traditional point of view, I agree with you.

[do_androids_dream]

If one thinks the he/she can only produce a cool song with 1000`s of effects then he/she should consider again about the basic principles of music: Harmony

One can use effects to create harmony can they not?

[Mojo42]

@Yvonne

Not entirely true. Because there are music genres that live from effects, from experimental stuff. From "sounds" that almost no classic synth can generate on its own. Autechre for instance is faaaaaar away from harmonies and the traditional melodies. They live from experimenting and pushing the sounds, and gear to their limits, probably also over their limits

Yes, but that belongs to the point: Simply use the opportunity to create something different when joining OSC. As a general conclusion we can say that OSC is not open for each style of music, because some doesn`t work without all this effects, but I don`t see a big problem if one is simply a bit flexible and open for other styles too.

One can use effects to create harmony can they not?

It doesn`t matters much if they can or not, fact is that you may not use it at OSC and so you have to find different ways to express yourself with music.

This discussion is useless. OSC has its rules, the rules allow each flexible musician to make a great track, simply took the opportunity, be flexible or leave it.

Maybe this sounds a bit harsh, but consider about the deeper sense of this restrictions: If each and every effect would be allowed at OSC this would also have disadvantages which are:

- No one could say what a certain synthesizer is able to do in it`s basic. But that`s quite intresting for consumers. Also for the developer this is a great opportunity to see what "his/her baby" is really able to do or not.

- All great sound designer on board would lose the opportunity to show their skills and fight the battle with them, because if all kinds of effects would be allowed who could say in the end what is really programmed and what not?

So: If we would change the rules, OSC would be more attractive for all the ones who produce the kind of music deft_bonz was talking about, but on the other hand it would be less attractive for sound designer, consumer and synthesizer developer. So, what shall we do?

[z.prime]

One can use effects to create harmony can they not?

Specifically: you may use hosts MIDI fx & freeware MIDI fx to create harmonies with MIDI notes, you may NOT use post-processing which will create harmonies from the audio signal.

[stardustmedia]

Yes, but that belongs to the point: Simply use the opportunity to create something different when joining OSC. As a general conclusion we can say that OSC is not open for each style of music, because some doesn`t work without all this effects, but I don`t see a big problem if one is simply a bit flexible and open for other styles too.

I comply


I had similar feeling in the beginning. Too restrictive, too many rules, bla bla bla...
Finally I jumped into the ice cold glacier water coming out of the sauna. And here I am, having a lot of fun, and probably learning a lot of new stuff.

I believe everybody should go outside of his comfort zone, otherwise he'll be stuck forever Nothing in this reality is made 100% for your satisfaction anyway. In short: Quit whining and start having fun.

[stardustmedia]

One can use effects to create harmony can they not?

Specifically: you may use hosts MIDI fx & freeware MIDI fx to create harmonies with MIDI notes, you may NOT use post-processing which will create harmonies from the audio signal.

Yeah... I heard about that mysterious thing called harmony where some highly talented artists that are born only once in a century, play with TWO fingers at the same time the MIDI keyboard. Isn't that incredible... just wow... I don't dare to do that, so I use effects

IRONY OFF

[do_androids_dream]

One can use effects to create harmony can they not?

It doesn`t matters much if they can or not, fact is that you may not use it at OSC and so you have to find different ways to express yourself with music.

To be honest, I put the question forward as a sort of philosophical curve ball because it sounded like you were implying some sort of superiority with your statement about harmony, going back to basic principles and not relying on '1000's of effects'. Harmony is but one small part of the grand scheme of 'music' and, significantly, harmony is not excluded through the use of effects. Much of my favourite organised noise has very little in the way of harmony going on. And, I don't personally differentiate between an effect and an instrument too much when I'm composing - I just see it all as one big modular organism that can be pushed and pulled in different directions whether that's hitting notes on a keyboard or tweaking knobs on a delay.

[bibz1st]

Although I dont participate very often (only 2 so far) I thought I'd put my 2 penn'eth in.
Would it be such a bad thing if it was just the synth and absolutely no extra fx.
Some fx can be somewhat acheived by judicious use of midi and layering, all that assuming the synth hasnt got them built in.
Might be a little more work but it is supposed to be a challenge with the synth.
Feel free to shoot holes in that

[wagtunes]

I hope my track gets approved. LOL.

Back on the current topic.

Honestly, I don't care what the rules are...BUT...they should be CLEAR.

My problem is that there seems to be a lot of gray area in them such as the terms "as long as they are not abused" for certain FX.

What is abuse? That is a relative term. You can't quantify it. Abuse to one person may be perfectly acceptable to somebody else. How far can we push this thing until somebody decides that it's not acceptable? And then when that decision comes, because this is so subjective, it becomes arbitrary. Will certain "long time" members be given more rope to hang themselves with than new members? Well, actually that question has already been answered with a recent submission that has been accepted by a member who just joined. So I guess that's a moot point. Everybody "seems" to be treated equally.

But still. How am I supposed to know whether or not my choice of FX (as long as there are no paid ones or any explicitly marked as off limits) will be allowed? At what point will I have broken the "spirit" of the competition with an "excessive" amount of mangling?

If I listen to a track and can't tell that the synth in question is actually THAT synth at all, then to me that means something is very wrong because some synths on their own are simply not capable of producing certain sounds without some "help."

So how much help do we allow? And if we allow FX that allow a synth that clearly can't do dub step type sounds, to do those sounds, then does this really become a one synth challenge or an FX war?

Like I said, I don't care either way. I've got the same FX as everybody else since they're free. And there are some great ones out there for all kinds of purposes. But then again, does this then become an FX war instead of a one synth challenge?

IMO, we've gone way in the direction of the former.

Anyway, I hope my track gets approved. LOL.

[z.prime]

Although I dont participate very often (only 2 so far) I thought I'd put my 2 penn'eth in.
Would it be such a bad thing if it was just the synth and absolutely no extra fx.
Some fx can be somewhat acheived by judicious use of midi and layering, all that assuming the synth hasnt got them built in.
Might be a little more work but it is supposed to be a challenge with the synth.
Feel free to shoot holes in that

This is definitely a possibility. You're not alone in wanting this. However, keep in mind people often bump into CPU limitations with these synths, so the allowance of FX is, in part, to alleviate the need to stack many instances - allowing what you COULD accomplish with just the synth, but rather in a more convenient manner. For example, you could stack 10 or more instances with different volume levels and various offsets and other minor tweaks to simulate delay or reverb fairly well. But that is a pain in the butt. Try changing the patch around with that many instances. Pain. In. The. Butt. So, to me, the spirit of the rules are to allow FX that you could accomplish with just the synth but make it bearable to work with and not overload your CPU.

[wagtunes]

Although I dont participate very often (only 2 so far) I thought I'd put my 2 penn'eth in.
Would it be such a bad thing if it was just the synth and absolutely no extra fx.
Some fx can be somewhat acheived by judicious use of midi and layering, all that assuming the synth hasnt got them built in.
Might be a little more work but it is supposed to be a challenge with the synth.
Feel free to shoot holes in that

This is definitely a possibility. You're not alone in wanting this. However, keep in mind people often bump into CPU limitations with these synths, so the allowance of FX is, in part, to alleviate the need to stack many instances - allowing what you COULD accomplish with just the synth, but rather in a more convenient manner. For example, you could stack 10 or more instances with different volume levels and various offsets and other minor tweaks to simulate delay or reverb fairly well. But that is a pain in the butt. Try changing the patch around with that many instances. Pain. In. The. Butt. So, to me, the spirit of the rules are to allow FX that you could accomplish with just the synth but make it bearable to work with and not overload your CPU.

This I totally agree with. I only have a problem with FX that color the sound such as the ones mentioned in the rules plus distortion and filters because they do color the sound.

I have a filter that comes with Cubase called MorphFilter and let me tell you, that thing can turn any synth into another animal.

Now, it's free (comes with Cubase) and it's a filter, which is on the allowed FX list. So should I be allowed to use it? If so, how much? If not, why? It's a filter. It's allowed. But you really need to hear this thing at certain settings and automated to morph between those settings.

Personally, I don't use it because if I want a synth that's going to sound like that filter, I'll use THAT synth. Why knock myself out trying to make another synth sound like something it wasn't meant to sound like?

As I said, we're in a lot of gray areas here and I'm fine with those areas as long as they are applied uniformly and fairly to everybody.

[psmacmur]

To be honest, I put the question forward as a sort of philosophical curve ball....

Ah, an epistemological discussion of the meaning of music. I love these topics. This Is Your Brain on Music is one of my favourite books. My take...

1. Music is art using the medium of sound. It might be integrated with other media, e.g. video or live performance, and you might feel it (e.g. feel the bass in your gut, or the strings when you're playing a guitar sort of thing) in addition to hearing it, but its medium is always sound.
2. To appeal to the aspect of the brain that creates and appreciate music, it has to have patterns. These patterns can take any or all of several forms, a few of which include:
a) fine-grained patterns in frequency: timbre
b) coarse-grained patterns in frequency: harmony
c) fine-grained patterns in time: rhythm
d) coarse-grained patterns in time and frequency: melody
e) longer-term patterns in time: progression

You don't need all of these to create music, but to win OSC, you probably need all of the above, and possibly more besides.