KVR Audio

DrewIsHalcyon · Post by **DrewIsHalcyon** » Wed May 20, 2015 10:31 pm

Hey guys, my name is Drew. I'm a full time worker/student/father who produces as a hobby and has been since I was younger. Music has always been an integral part of my life, while producing has always been an interest. I'm at the point to where I can navigate FL10 and Massive well enough to make "music" and I really want to produce emotionally driven EDM music. I'm at the point to where I want to take my producing to the next level, really understand the intricacies of producing but I have no idea where to start. I guess my question here is could someone possibly give me some subjects to start researching, or in rank of importance what I need to know?

Thanks in advance,
Halcyon

P.s. This is the crap that I'm making right now...
https://soundcloud.com/halcyonproductions/wasted-time

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Thu May 21, 2015 4:06 am

If you already know the basics I would recommend to you a book (also avaible as a an iOS app) named Secrets of House Music Production, it covers all aspects of dance music productions well enough to get the whole picture at once, then you probably can go deeper in some subjects.

Another good sources are video courses, Coursera has some free and there are a couple of sites as groove3, macpro video and Lynda.com. all of them have good ones and if you have an hour a day you can get a lot out of a single month.

lobanov · Post by **lobanov** » Thu May 21, 2015 5:25 am

1. When you learn something try to build the system in your mind.
Composition and arrangment (melody, harmony, sound design + synthesis), mixing (levels of instruments, panorama, eq, compression, other effects) and mastering are three basic stages of every music production. Each piece of information you get belongs to one of them. If you bear in mind this you will be more effecive in your learning and growth.

2. Groove3, Lynda.com, MacPro Video, books and blogs are your friends.
May be look at this: http://blog.kimlajoie.com/
This seems me a very good point to start with eq and compression: http://www.dnbscene.com/article/88-thin ... tutorial/1
http://www.dnbscene.com/article/1474-co ... n-tutorial

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Thu May 21, 2015 6:29 am

Have you ever tried to reproduce a well-known track from scratch? You learn the most of just doing it a lot.

neverenoughfunk · Post by **neverenoughfunk** » Thu May 21, 2015 1:24 pm

just play... then play more... then more than that... and keep going... there are no set rules... the more you play/make music the better you will become... open your ears to all types of music... believe it or not... making music is a "natural" progression... the more you put into it the more you will get out of it...

in other words... there are no shortcuts... you actually have to work at it... there is no magic pill or any thing... just make music...

simple as that!!!

DrewIsHalcyon · Post by **DrewIsHalcyon** » Fri May 22, 2015 2:22 am

Thank you everyone so much for the information! I really appreciate it.

@Neverenoughfunk I understand there is no magic pill to making good music. But talent and skill are two seperate entities. I have a talent in regards to music but the skill involved is something that is learned. You can hand a man a gun and tell him to shoot something, and eventually he'll hit it, or you can teach him how to shoot.

DrewIsHalcyon · Post by **DrewIsHalcyon** » Fri May 22, 2015 2:26 am

lobanov wrote:1. When you learn something try to build the system in your mind.
Composition and arrangment (melody, harmony, sound design + synthesis), mixing (levels of instruments, panorama, eq, compression, other effects) and mastering are three basic stages of every music production. Each piece of information you get belongs to one of them. If you bear in mind this you will be more effecive in your learning and growth.
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So, in regards to this, should I be learning this in this specific order?
Just curious because as far as composition, arrangement (melody and harmony) I've actually got down due to classical training, but synthesis mixing, and mastering are things I'm lost on. Should I start with synthesis first?

lobanov · Post by **lobanov** » Fri May 22, 2015 5:27 am

DrewIsHalcyon wrote:
lobanov wrote:1. When you learn something try to build the system in your mind.
Composition and arrangment (melody, harmony, sound design + synthesis), mixing (levels of instruments, panorama, eq, compression, other effects) and mastering are three basic stages of every music production. Each piece of information you get belongs to one of them. If you bear in mind this you will be more effecive in your learning and growth.
[/url]
So, in regards to this, should I be learning this in this specific order?
Just curious because as far as composition, arrangement (melody and harmony) I've actually got down due to classical training, but synthesis mixing, and mastering are things I'm lost on. Should I start with synthesis first?

No. In practice, arrangment, mixing and mastering can be made by different people. These are different professions. If you want to do all on your own you simply combine these jobs. And you have to be a composer, a performer, an arranger, a mixing engineer etc. My advice is: organize the information you get by reading, seeing the courses etc. Avoid any mess in your mind. And learn what you need to know at the moment (you think you need). I've tried to give you a "skeleton" for this.

Your knowledge in synthesis will help you to correct existing presets or create your own sounds. Do you need this sort of knowledge? You can use presets made by the others, this doesn't require any knowledge in synthesis. (And don't learn synthesis, learn synthesizer(s). The instruments you work with.)
There are problems with songs/mixes that should be solved by correcting your arrangements and sounds you use OR working with eq, compressor or something similar. If you want to do all on your own you should know where the problem is and the best way to solve it. It's not a good idea to improve bad sounds and bad arrangments with mixing instruments (eq, compressor etc.) And improving your sounds requires knowledge in synthesis.
The idea of the natural stages (composition+arrangement - mixing - mastering) will help you to organize information (there is a lot of info!) and to work more consciously.

Mastering is not so important when you start. It's a final stage, very specific...

lobanov · Post by **lobanov** » Fri May 22, 2015 5:58 am

What do you want to improve in your tracks? Learn how to do it

Aleatoriac · Post by **Aleatoriac** » Fri May 22, 2015 7:17 am

Do whatever you want. Haters gonna hate. f**k em.

neverenoughfunk · Post by **neverenoughfunk** » Fri May 22, 2015 2:51 pm

DrewIsHalcyon wrote:Thank you everyone so much for the information! I really appreciate it.

@Neverenoughfunk I understand there is no magic pill to making good music. But talent and skill are two seperate entities. I have a talent in regards to music but the skill involved is something that is learned. You can hand a man a gun and tell him to shoot something, and eventually he'll hit it, or you can teach him how to shoot.

i feel what you are saying here... but i used the phase "natural progression"... in other words... someone learned to shoot first before being able to teach someone to shoot... what i find is i learned enough about music over the years to start experimenting myself... and you would be surprised how one thing leads to another... i.e. "natural progression"...

what i heard from your music... you are on the right track... and in my opinion... the only thing that is left is "just playing/making music/experimentation"...

to sum up... having an understanding of chords, scales, modes, intro, verse, chorus, bridge, break, outtro... what else is there?

EXPERIMENTATION!!!

you will be surprised where "EXPERIMENTATION" will take you... because making "mistakes" will sound nice you in you music sometimes... but you would not know that without "EXPERIMENTATION"...

which leads back to "Natural Progression"... sit at your rig every day and "EXPERIMENT" and let that "Natural Progression" kick in... and you will see first hand exactly what i am talking about...

i forgot to add... not every song one writes will make it to the record/album/cd/etc... when i look at Stevie Wonder... how many albums has he recorded compared to how many songs he has written?
that is a ton of "EXPERIMENTATION" there!!!

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Fri May 22, 2015 3:15 pm

For learning music and play and instrument: hire a teacher

For learning synthesis: Synthorial

For learning mixing: Videos and practice, practice, practice

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Fri May 22, 2015 3:19 pm

Guess off topic, but squeeze real world recording of nature/ambiance in background and use more world instruments, you ever heard duduk for example, that kind of stuff can give real emotions and life to your work, opposed to trying to make Massive sound less digital and synthetic, if you are set for the emotions, than leave the EDM behind and whatever one will do in EDM and do whatever you feel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fqCp0-p1wk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibQ_q1Q-Lw0

neverenoughfunk · Post by **neverenoughfunk** » Fri May 22, 2015 3:23 pm

in my opinion... the OP has a level of command of the music making process by his demo song... i.e. all the elements of a music are there...

just starting out and do not have a "clue" about music... i would recommend a teacher and learning a instrument... again... in my opinion the OP has a level of command of the music making process... not sure what a teacher could/would add without disturbing what he/she already knows...

excessional · Post by **excessional** » Fri May 22, 2015 10:44 pm

Something like Composition for Computer Musicians is a good basic guide.

Takes you through how to build drumbeats, basslines and melodic leads and how to fit them all together. Also explains where EDM differs from pop/rock with regard to its component parts.

What is the best way to learn.