Piano plugins?

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fluffy_little_something wrote:
Ingonator wrote:Truepianos is a physical modlling and samples hybrid as mentioend above. The 5 included models have installer sizes of 43 up to 90 MB (there is an installer for each model, besides the main installer).

The latest model is the Atlantis module and the quality is great IMO.

I got Truepianos since 2008 now and i still love it. Anyway i am not a classical Piano player so it is possible that for those it is not good enough while for the average player it seems to be great.

Also got the Basic version of the dicontnued Garritan Authorized Steinway Piano which so far seemed to be the only one directly created in coopertaion with Steinway.
While mostly sample based some parts also seem to involve modelling like e.g. sympathetic resonance and the hammer sounds (called "mechanical noise" at the GUI and that parameter could make a big difference in the sound).

Last but not least i got my Yamaha Motif ES 7 with the built-in Pianos and also a custom Steinway Model D sample set.

Have also tested Pianoteq recently and while it sound great i did not have the feeling that i really need it based on what i alraedy got and for what i use it. If i would buy it i guess i would go for the Stage version.
Anyway if i would not alraedy have other choices that i am also a bit used to after several years i am quite sure i would go for Pianoteq.


A big advantage of modelled Pianos seems to be that the timbre chages more "naturally" when using diferent velocity. With Sample libraries this depends on velocity switching and how many samples are included for each key. Those libraries could reach insane sizes, just to reproduce the behavior at different velocity properly. In worst case a sample libray always sounds similar, no matter which velocity you use at a certain key.
Yes, I also dislike samples. I am impressed by the sound of the Lounge Lizard Rhodes, hardly nay footprint be it on the RAM or on the CPU.

Not a big fan of Steinberg here. I don't know why they are so popular. Initially I was impressed by Retrologue, but the more I played and tweaked it, the more I noticed the ugly noise. They seem to have quality issues, and I assume it is not limited to Retrologue.
With Cubase I read the octaves are wrong somehow...
Steinberg? I mentioned Steinway which seems to be the most famous piano company, especially for the Model D...


Anyway i like Steinberg too, at least Cubase Pro 8 while about their instruments i got mixed feelings.
Last edited by Ingonator on Thu May 21, 2015 9:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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I know the difference between Steinway and Steinberg, someone had mentioned the Steinberg plugin, I thought it was you, but it was someone else, sorry.

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Judging from the audio demos, what I am looking for is an upright piano, not a grand piano...

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As the AAS plugins were mentioend i do no longer have their own plugins (which i sold some years ago) but i got those included in Live 9 Suite which are from AAS too and comparable (called Electric, Collision and Tension there).

Arturia Wurlitzer V (included with V-Collection 4) seems to be purely modelled too.
Last edited by Ingonator on Thu May 21, 2015 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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I'm not the biggest fan of Retrologue by itself either. But it is an engine that gets used quite effectively in H5 for me, so I have no real complaints of it either. I also don't find the the VA engine in Omnisphere to be anything that special, so maybe they are only as good as the samples they support for my tastes.

But I thought we were talking about piano modeling, not the analogue of analog.

H5 has plenty of piano content in it also and quite good for use in it's own 'rampler' way.
The Grand 3 does seem to go beyond that quite well.
I prefer its Yamaha to Pianoteq's Yamaha but lean more towards Pianoteq's upright than the Grand offering.

Definitely worth giving Steinberg the time to download and demo to see if it has anything for you or can be easily dismissed for your personal tastes.

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Something else I really like about Steinberg is its built in recorder. I use that constantly. Great for practice and scratch padding ideas on what has always been my first instrument.

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Speaking about modelling also the Waldorf Zarenbourg stage piano (hardware) includes modelling e.g. for the E-Pianos + Clavinet while it also got a sampling engine for the Grand Piano and a full featured 6 OP FM synthesis engine for the FM Piano.
Those engines including the FM should be also programmable from an editor while i have no experince with that editor and have only played the Zarenbourg at the Musikmese so far.

A Zarenbourg module should be released in the future, as was anounced at the Muskmesse 2015. This info here is in german:
http://www.bax-shop.de/news/waldorf-zar ... modul.html
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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One reason I haven't buy Pianoteq is that they include 2 models, but you can't choose them, they give you the choice betweeen three pair of instruments.
dedication to flying

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BBFG# wrote:Something else I really like about Steinberg is its built in recorder. I use that constantly. Great for practice and scratch padding ideas on what has always been my first instrument.
That's what I love about Pianoteq. It has midi record, drag & drop, and you can demo any of the additional instruments directly. It's practically always on, and certainly the fastest non-hardware piano I own.

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wagtunes wrote:Lotta modeling haters out there.
Really? :o

I would like to see much more good physmod vsts.....

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Chris-S wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Lotta modeling haters out there.
Really? :o

I would like to see much more good physmod vsts.....
Yeah, me too but there really are a lot of people out there who live and die by samples and insist that they are superior to modeling in every way, of course neglecting to mention how many gig of data they need to store for each one of those sampled masterpieces.

I'm waiting for really good modeled strings so I can ditch my EWQL libraries that take forever to load.

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Sold my Truepiano after i demoed Pianoteq. It's so versatile, simply awesome!
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.

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I've been using pianoteq since v2, i think (i replaced ivory with it, as i too, am not so wild about samples...if i can avoid them, i will). Its improved a fair bit since then. I love it.
I also just picked up the electric piano add-on recently, and am really liking that as well.

The 2 model choice thing is a pretty recent change. I can't say i'm wild about the lack of choice there, either, but if you snag some of the free addons, i think there are some other models in there (and some other possibly interesting stuff, too). Also, i think users post presets, etc, so you might be able to find something there...
I have the standard version (all there was when i bought in). It's a bit pricey for some, but for me it's turned out to be well worth the money...i use this thing all the time! The major version upgrades aren't too pricey, either.
Feed the children! Preferably to starving wild animals.
--
Pooter | Software | Akai MPK-61 | Line 6 Helix | Dynaudio BM5A mk II

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There's no doubt that Pianoteq has the best responsiveness and dynamics of any piano plug-in. I had it for a while and was pretty impressed. however whenever I went back and played a sampled piano, I still found that I preferred that as I could really hear the physical material and space in it. But this is probably because I don't play super fast or virtuoso, so I don't feel limited by the somewhat static nature of sampled pianos. And I appreciate the sound of exposed notes of samples. Someone playing complex stuff at wildly changing dynamics would certainly appreciate Pianoteq the most.

I think the samples/modelling hybrid method has been underused though. The new Atlantis module is quite nice in Truepianos/ I found the lows especially had a little more realism than Pianoteq, probably because of samples. But I sold that too a while back as I was pretty happy with my sampled pianos. I used to be more concerned with hard drive size limitations though, not as much anymore.

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Addictive keys has a free version

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