Midi channel selection
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 61 posts since 13 May, 2014
I saw how to connect two midi keyboards to play two separate instruments at once (Receptorland video). It was very informative. I'm just a little unclear as to why the two keyboards are mapped to the same send channel, which was 1. What is the advantage of doing it this way. My knowledge of Midi is very limited. Thank you
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 7 Sep, 2014
I'm glad I'm not the only one confused by this.
I asked a related question "Don’t understand the Listen on channel/map to channel/Thru feature" amongst lots of other questions here a few months back, the reply was "Simplest way to understand this; the first option is INcoming Midi, second setting is OUTgoing midi. Ex: Listen on Channel: 2 the Receptor is listening to all incoming MIDI data on channel 2. Map channel THRU: MIDI data being received is being set to the plugin on the current channel to ALL MIDI chanels. If Map Channel is set to 2 (for example), then the Receptor will send MIDI Data only on channel 2 to that specific plugin". So based on that statement, by mapping both synths in the video example to ch1, presumably the one set to ch2 shouldn't play?
I'm still confused. I think we're somehow looking at this the wrong way, this would explain why I seem to be getting confusing apparently random results when I try and control different things, particularly something like the VB3 organ where I can split the(VB3) keyboard or have upper, lower, bass pedals on different channels, I never seem to be able to get it to work the way I think it should be.
We must be misunderstanding how this is working because it doesn't seem to make sense. Hopefully it will make a lot of sense when we've understood how it's working. I've been using midi kbs and sound modules for a while before I had the Receptor, I've read the receptor manual numerous times, watched the videos numerous times, gone back to reading midi manuals to see what I might be missing but still confused.
I think I am seeing the Receptor as containing several levels: Receptor > synths (upto 16) > plugins. So when we say Receptor is listening on chx what do we really mean? the whole Receptor itself or just one of the synths? When we say midi in, midi into what; the Receptor, the synth or the plugin? same with midi thru. Are we setting the Receptor to chx, the synth to chx or the plugin to chx? If the latter what happens if we use the same plugin in more than one synth?
I'm assuming we're setting the synth to chx, so in the video musicmanstan is talking about it makes sense to set kbd1&synth1 to ch1, kbd2&synth2 to ch2, but as musicmanstan asks, I too don't understand why they are then both mapped to ch1.
I asked a related question "Don’t understand the Listen on channel/map to channel/Thru feature" amongst lots of other questions here a few months back, the reply was "Simplest way to understand this; the first option is INcoming Midi, second setting is OUTgoing midi. Ex: Listen on Channel: 2 the Receptor is listening to all incoming MIDI data on channel 2. Map channel THRU: MIDI data being received is being set to the plugin on the current channel to ALL MIDI chanels. If Map Channel is set to 2 (for example), then the Receptor will send MIDI Data only on channel 2 to that specific plugin". So based on that statement, by mapping both synths in the video example to ch1, presumably the one set to ch2 shouldn't play?
I'm still confused. I think we're somehow looking at this the wrong way, this would explain why I seem to be getting confusing apparently random results when I try and control different things, particularly something like the VB3 organ where I can split the(VB3) keyboard or have upper, lower, bass pedals on different channels, I never seem to be able to get it to work the way I think it should be.
We must be misunderstanding how this is working because it doesn't seem to make sense. Hopefully it will make a lot of sense when we've understood how it's working. I've been using midi kbs and sound modules for a while before I had the Receptor, I've read the receptor manual numerous times, watched the videos numerous times, gone back to reading midi manuals to see what I might be missing but still confused.
I think I am seeing the Receptor as containing several levels: Receptor > synths (upto 16) > plugins. So when we say Receptor is listening on chx what do we really mean? the whole Receptor itself or just one of the synths? When we say midi in, midi into what; the Receptor, the synth or the plugin? same with midi thru. Are we setting the Receptor to chx, the synth to chx or the plugin to chx? If the latter what happens if we use the same plugin in more than one synth?
I'm assuming we're setting the synth to chx, so in the video musicmanstan is talking about it makes sense to set kbd1&synth1 to ch1, kbd2&synth2 to ch2, but as musicmanstan asks, I too don't understand why they are then both mapped to ch1.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 61 posts since 13 May, 2014
A little perplexing isn't it PaulH6. To add to the confusion, I just got myself a Studiologic VMK 161. I connected the VMK (piano vst) to listen on midi channel 1 and send on 1, then I connected by Novation (bass vst) keyboard to listen on midi channel 2 and send on 2. I even assigned (midi learn) a knob on each keyboard to control the volume. On paper it all makes sense, except that the knob on my VMK is also controlling the volume on my Novation. To make things worse, when I play my VMK, I hear both the bass and piano instruments together. The same when I play the Novation.
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- KVRist
- 76 posts since 17 Jun, 2004
It is a confusing subject and hopefully I can clear a little of the confusion up. First thing to note is that MIDI setup in the Receptor GUI takes precedence over the software MIDI settings. If you set the modwheel in global midi settings (A receptor setting) to do something differently it is likely not going to function in the plugin unless the MIDI assignment is removed.
"Listen on Channel" this is the filter for incoming midi (any midi data at all being sent via the MIDI In, USB, etc.). 16 channels are available, if you set it to 4 it will only listen on Midi channel 4 (for that synth channel). If you have it set to "ALL" you will find that all incoming midi messages on any Midi channel will be responded to for this particular synth channel.
"Map to Channel" this is what channel the MIDI notes will be sent to the plugin on. By default it is set to Thru which will send a MIDI message on whatever channel it is currently listening on and receiving messages from. Most plugins will expect to receive a note on channel 1 unless changed otherwise. If you have a synth that is "Listening" on channel 4 but the plugin in the synth channel is not setup to receive on channel 4 you can map the channel to send on Midi channel 1. Only to that plugin in that synth channel.
Let me know if that clears things up at all.
"Listen on Channel" this is the filter for incoming midi (any midi data at all being sent via the MIDI In, USB, etc.). 16 channels are available, if you set it to 4 it will only listen on Midi channel 4 (for that synth channel). If you have it set to "ALL" you will find that all incoming midi messages on any Midi channel will be responded to for this particular synth channel.
"Map to Channel" this is what channel the MIDI notes will be sent to the plugin on. By default it is set to Thru which will send a MIDI message on whatever channel it is currently listening on and receiving messages from. Most plugins will expect to receive a note on channel 1 unless changed otherwise. If you have a synth that is "Listening" on channel 4 but the plugin in the synth channel is not setup to receive on channel 4 you can map the channel to send on Midi channel 1. Only to that plugin in that synth channel.
Let me know if that clears things up at all.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 61 posts since 13 May, 2014
Thanks, I think I'm understanding now. Your saying that from the "Setup" button of the Receptor GUI, under Midi, is where I should be setting up my midi channels. What I've been doing is setting up the midi channels from the plugins that I load on the rack. I click on the midi button on the bottom right of the plugin to set the midi channels to match my keyboard controllers. I'm I on the right track?
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- KVRist
- 76 posts since 17 Jun, 2004
No this area is for setting up MIDI controls for the Receptor GUI. So if you wanted to control the volume knob of a specific synth channel you can set that up there. It uses the midi learn functionality to learn what message is being sent from your keyboard to the Receptor.musicmanstan wrote:Thanks, I think I'm understanding now. Your saying that from the "Setup" button of the Receptor GUI, under Midi, is where I should be setting up my midi channels.
You setup synth channel specific MIDI by clicking the MIDI button on the channel like you have been.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 61 posts since 13 May, 2014
I got thrown by your initial comment "First thing to note is that MIDI setup in the Receptor GUI takes precedence over the software MIDI settings." I assumed that you were speaking of two different areas in the Receptor GUI, the Setup tab and the Plugin (software) midi settings.
Well it sounds like I have my keyboards setup properly, but why can't I control the volume independently on each of my keyboards. I have my first keyboard, VMK (piano vst) to listen on midi channel 1 and send on 1, and my second keyboard, Novation (bass vst) keyboard to listen on midi channel 2 and send on 2. When I raise the volume on my VMK, it raises the volume of my second keyboard and both vst instruments are sounding at the same time. I don't get it. Both keyboards are setup on different channels yet they're having an affect on each other.
Well it sounds like I have my keyboards setup properly, but why can't I control the volume independently on each of my keyboards. I have my first keyboard, VMK (piano vst) to listen on midi channel 1 and send on 1, and my second keyboard, Novation (bass vst) keyboard to listen on midi channel 2 and send on 2. When I raise the volume on my VMK, it raises the volume of my second keyboard and both vst instruments are sounding at the same time. I don't get it. Both keyboards are setup on different channels yet they're having an affect on each other.
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 7 Sep, 2014
Don't know whether it's too late to help with the last question; I got too busy in lead up to christmas to have time to understand the Receptor. It was going to be my project the last few days, but already I've got bogged down unable to install updates (so hopefully I could use more than one kbd) and figure this problem out.
I think what I didn't realise was it (the synths in the Receptor) might be acting like what I would call a midi converter (which I wasn't expecting without a specific midi convert function from my experience many years ago with midi sequencing), e.g. comes in on ch1 and sends on ch2 (converting from ch1 to ch2), although I don't think that explains your last question, but wasn't exactly sure what you meant; I presume by kbd you meant the synths in receptor they were connected to.
If I manage to get my Receptor working ok I'll see if I can figure this midi channel thing out properly.
I think what I didn't realise was it (the synths in the Receptor) might be acting like what I would call a midi converter (which I wasn't expecting without a specific midi convert function from my experience many years ago with midi sequencing), e.g. comes in on ch1 and sends on ch2 (converting from ch1 to ch2), although I don't think that explains your last question, but wasn't exactly sure what you meant; I presume by kbd you meant the synths in receptor they were connected to.
If I manage to get my Receptor working ok I'll see if I can figure this midi channel thing out properly.
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- KVRist
- 79 posts since 25 Apr, 2006 from Stockholm, Sweden
Once you get your head around it, the midi features in the receptor actually makes things easier than they may be in, say, Mainstage. Some software synths are designed to only respond to a certain channel, and the Receptor midi engine lets you overcome such things.
I have a Quattro, and right now I'm sending program changes to the receptor on the global channel (I've chosen ch 14). I have my hw synths mixed on mixer channels 1-8 with multiple fx sends (using the aux pre setting for 100% wet signal), and I've loaded VST plugs on midi channels 1-2 and 9-13. The way the receptor interface works (along with my Kurz PC3K7) lets me play any plug on any channel and from any synth in my rig.
As a bonus, I'm syncing the Receptor clock from our drummer's laptop running Ableton, so that my tempo synced fx stay in sync with the band.
Although learning a new system takes time, the Receptor is definately worth the effort.
I have a Quattro, and right now I'm sending program changes to the receptor on the global channel (I've chosen ch 14). I have my hw synths mixed on mixer channels 1-8 with multiple fx sends (using the aux pre setting for 100% wet signal), and I've loaded VST plugs on midi channels 1-2 and 9-13. The way the receptor interface works (along with my Kurz PC3K7) lets me play any plug on any channel and from any synth in my rig.
As a bonus, I'm syncing the Receptor clock from our drummer's laptop running Ableton, so that my tempo synced fx stay in sync with the band.
Although learning a new system takes time, the Receptor is definately worth the effort.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 61 posts since 13 May, 2014
Thanks for your help. I didn't realize that my question was addressed by you guys. After a couple of weeks, I didn't think I would get an answer. Thanks again.
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- KVRer
- 10 posts since 26 Nov, 2014
Hi,
Re this midi question!
Would it be possible for someone that knows what their doing, to simply post a example of the settings for...say keyboard 1...sending on midi Chanel 1...calling up a program change to plugin xxx on receptor (perhaps a brass sound)..with the ( learning) set up globally for controlling the volume of this plugin.
Then, how would I set up another keyboard that's sending on Chanel 2 to play the same brass sound from the same plugin? Then my masterkeyboard (not keyboard 1) sends a program change to the Receptor...what are the specific Chanels used to send the prog change...and what if I want to use 2 new plugins on receptor to play two new sounds...(with learning control facilities) on the two new Chanels , say Chanels 4&5...
Regards
Niven8
Re this midi question!
Would it be possible for someone that knows what their doing, to simply post a example of the settings for...say keyboard 1...sending on midi Chanel 1...calling up a program change to plugin xxx on receptor (perhaps a brass sound)..with the ( learning) set up globally for controlling the volume of this plugin.
Then, how would I set up another keyboard that's sending on Chanel 2 to play the same brass sound from the same plugin? Then my masterkeyboard (not keyboard 1) sends a program change to the Receptor...what are the specific Chanels used to send the prog change...and what if I want to use 2 new plugins on receptor to play two new sounds...(with learning control facilities) on the two new Chanels , say Chanels 4&5...
Regards
Niven8
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Bryan@MuseResearch Bryan@MuseResearch https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9067
- MUSEician
- 618 posts since 18 Sep, 2003 from Silicon Valley
Ah, MIDI. My favorite subject.
I'll chime in and provide another way to look at the MIDI Filter that you find by clicking on the little MIDI jack icon in the Mixer mode or by clicking on the MIDI button on any Synth channel in Rack mode.
I think of it as a patch bay. The MIDI router allows you to accept MIDi that is coming in on any or all channels, and then re-route that MIDI to a DIFFERENT channel that gets seen by the plugin.
Let's do use B4II as an example. (I think VB3 operates exactly the same way, but I'm not sure, so I'm using something I'm sure about).
The TOP manual is assigned in the plugin to MIDI channel 1.
The BOTTOM manual is assigned in the plugin to MIDI channel 2.
The pedal manual is assigned in the plugin to MIDI channel 3.
So if I have a MIDI keyboard and it is SENDING OUT MIDI on MIDI channel 1, then I need to LISTEN TO that incoming MIDI before I can do anything with it. So I set the TOP ROW (Listen to MIDI Channel:) MIDI CHANNEL 1. Now the Receptor is receiving MIDI. What to do with it?
If I change the BOTTOM ROW (Play Plugin MIDI channel:) of the MIDI router to MIDI Channel 1, then I am bringing in the MIDI from my keyboard (which is sending on MIDI channel 1) and sending it over MIDI channel 1 to the plugin, which means it will play the top manual of the organ.
If I change the BOTTOM ROW (Play Plugin MIDI channel:) of the MIDI router to MIDI Channel 2, then I am bringing in the MIDI from my keyboard (which is sending on MIDI channel 1) and sending it over MIDI channel 2 to the plugin, which means it will play the bottom manual of the organ.
If I change the BOTTOM ROW (Play Plugin MIDI channel:) of the MIDI router to MIDI Channel 3, then I am bringing in the MIDI from my keyboard (which is sending on MIDI channel 1) and sending it over MIDI channel 3 to the plugin, which means it will play the foot pedals of the organ.
What if I have a sophisticated MIDI controller that can send on different channels, or I have more than one keyboard connected that are sending on different channels? In that case, I want to listen to more than one MIDI channel at one time, since I my keyboards are sending on more than one channel at the same time. To do this, I go in to the MIDI Router Top Row (Listen to MIDI channel…) and select "ALL". This means that the Receptor is listening to all 16 MIDI channels at once, and if any MIDI device sends MIDI to the Receptor, it will get "listened to".
However, ONLY THE MIDI CHANNELS THAT ARE ROUTED TO THE PLUGIN WILL GET RECEIVED BY THE PLUGIN, unless I change the setting in the BOTTOM ROW (Play Plugin MIDI channel) to "THRU". Once I do that, if I play a keyboard on MIDI channel 5, then the Receptor will listen to it (because it is listening to ALL channels) and it will send the incoming MIDI on that same channel to the Plugin since it is sending all MIDI THRU to the plugin.
Here's another example. I have a drum pad trigger that only sends on MIDI channel 10. Can't be changed, because its an imported cheap piece of crud, if you don't mind me saying so. How can I play my cool sampled drums in MusePlayer, which by default is set to receive MIDI on Channel 1? (write your answer down and check it with the solution below… no, you won't be graded)
The solution is to take the Top Row selection (Listen To MIDI Channel…) and set it so that it LISTENS TO the incoming MIDI Channel 10, since that's the only channel it can send on (I told you it was cheap). Next, I change my bottom row setting too play on MIDI channel 1 (Play Plugin MIDI channel…) so that my MusePlayer plugin can "hear" the incoming MIDI. So what the MIDI router does is listens on one channel, and then converts it so that the plugin can properly receive it on the channel it needs.
Hopefully that makes sense… if not, maybe we can do a video on some of the subtleties involved…
Bryan
I'll chime in and provide another way to look at the MIDI Filter that you find by clicking on the little MIDI jack icon in the Mixer mode or by clicking on the MIDI button on any Synth channel in Rack mode.
I think of it as a patch bay. The MIDI router allows you to accept MIDi that is coming in on any or all channels, and then re-route that MIDI to a DIFFERENT channel that gets seen by the plugin.
Let's do use B4II as an example. (I think VB3 operates exactly the same way, but I'm not sure, so I'm using something I'm sure about).
The TOP manual is assigned in the plugin to MIDI channel 1.
The BOTTOM manual is assigned in the plugin to MIDI channel 2.
The pedal manual is assigned in the plugin to MIDI channel 3.
So if I have a MIDI keyboard and it is SENDING OUT MIDI on MIDI channel 1, then I need to LISTEN TO that incoming MIDI before I can do anything with it. So I set the TOP ROW (Listen to MIDI Channel:) MIDI CHANNEL 1. Now the Receptor is receiving MIDI. What to do with it?
If I change the BOTTOM ROW (Play Plugin MIDI channel:) of the MIDI router to MIDI Channel 1, then I am bringing in the MIDI from my keyboard (which is sending on MIDI channel 1) and sending it over MIDI channel 1 to the plugin, which means it will play the top manual of the organ.
If I change the BOTTOM ROW (Play Plugin MIDI channel:) of the MIDI router to MIDI Channel 2, then I am bringing in the MIDI from my keyboard (which is sending on MIDI channel 1) and sending it over MIDI channel 2 to the plugin, which means it will play the bottom manual of the organ.
If I change the BOTTOM ROW (Play Plugin MIDI channel:) of the MIDI router to MIDI Channel 3, then I am bringing in the MIDI from my keyboard (which is sending on MIDI channel 1) and sending it over MIDI channel 3 to the plugin, which means it will play the foot pedals of the organ.
What if I have a sophisticated MIDI controller that can send on different channels, or I have more than one keyboard connected that are sending on different channels? In that case, I want to listen to more than one MIDI channel at one time, since I my keyboards are sending on more than one channel at the same time. To do this, I go in to the MIDI Router Top Row (Listen to MIDI channel…) and select "ALL". This means that the Receptor is listening to all 16 MIDI channels at once, and if any MIDI device sends MIDI to the Receptor, it will get "listened to".
However, ONLY THE MIDI CHANNELS THAT ARE ROUTED TO THE PLUGIN WILL GET RECEIVED BY THE PLUGIN, unless I change the setting in the BOTTOM ROW (Play Plugin MIDI channel) to "THRU". Once I do that, if I play a keyboard on MIDI channel 5, then the Receptor will listen to it (because it is listening to ALL channels) and it will send the incoming MIDI on that same channel to the Plugin since it is sending all MIDI THRU to the plugin.
Here's another example. I have a drum pad trigger that only sends on MIDI channel 10. Can't be changed, because its an imported cheap piece of crud, if you don't mind me saying so. How can I play my cool sampled drums in MusePlayer, which by default is set to receive MIDI on Channel 1? (write your answer down and check it with the solution below… no, you won't be graded)
The solution is to take the Top Row selection (Listen To MIDI Channel…) and set it so that it LISTENS TO the incoming MIDI Channel 10, since that's the only channel it can send on (I told you it was cheap). Next, I change my bottom row setting too play on MIDI channel 1 (Play Plugin MIDI channel…) so that my MusePlayer plugin can "hear" the incoming MIDI. So what the MIDI router does is listens on one channel, and then converts it so that the plugin can properly receive it on the channel it needs.
Hopefully that makes sense… if not, maybe we can do a video on some of the subtleties involved…
Bryan
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- KVRist
- 229 posts since 6 May, 2014 from New Mexico
Having trouble picturing this. How exactly are your hardware synths physically plugged in and by "multiple fx sends" do you just mean the two on right of the GUI?analogaddict wrote:
I have a Quattro, and right now I'm sending program changes to the receptor on the global channel (I've chosen ch 14). I have my hw synths mixed on mixer channels 1-8 with multiple fx sends (using the aux pre setting for 100% wet signal), and I've loaded VST plugs on midi channels 1-2 and 9-13. The way the receptor interface works (along with my Kurz PC3K7) lets me play any plug on any channel and from any synth in my rig
Fish Out Of Water
Entune Productions
Entune Productions
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- KVRist
- 79 posts since 25 Apr, 2006 from Stockholm, Sweden
I was working in mixer mode, where you have 3 fx slots per channel (including the master channel) as well as 2 aux sends... I use the Presonus card and run all my synths through the receptor.
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- KVRist
- 229 posts since 6 May, 2014 from New Mexico
Ya! Love that mixer mode for the three series-FX that you can switch around. Very helpful to the creative process! Also, I have set the two aux sends as EQ'd monitor sends for the rest of my band. I can truly use the device to run my whole band as promoted in the videos and other media. Unfortunately, I had to switch to Rack mode because of this very reason. Rack mode does not concern its self with MIDI channel correlating with the GUI or mixer channel. So far I believe I can fix this with a KMI Softstep which can be programmed to send a button press to a specific channel.analogaddict wrote:I was working in mixer mode, where you have 3 fx slots per channel (including the master channel) as well as 2 aux sends... I use the Presonus card and run all my synths through the receptor.
I have used the MIDI channel routing in Rack mode but have not seen it possible in Mixer mode. Mixer mode also requests specific CC's for mixer channel mute and such (my foot controller only goes up to 99!?! Insn't that lame!) whereas the Rack mode Learn function will take whatever you give it. If there is a possibility to reroute channels and CC's in Mixer mode then it would save myself, Bryan Lanser, Nick, and some other folks whose ears I've been chewing for a while some headache. (*see Improvement Wishes top of Forum)
Fish Out Of Water
Entune Productions
Entune Productions
