How to get a multitimbral MUX in a DAW

[janhardo]

From pljones his idea

This bit I don't understand. Is this something in the host? If so, can you try this:

- Set up two tracks with different MIDI channels targeting the same (initially empty) MuX
- In the MuX just have an Event In and an Event Monitor (under Event Processors, again)

That should give you a read out of what information the host is sending to the MuX.

Yes i made one composerrack and assign a empty MUX with a event monitor to midi channel 1 and 3
This is the result ..
- for midi channel 1: when pressing keyboard ..109: note, Chan 1, G3, 77,0
- for midichannel 3 : when pressing keyboard ..117: note, Chan 3, A3, 81,0

So when i select the midichannels 1 and 3 in the composer rack midi channels are recognized by MUX

[janhardo]

Ok, i loaded the "16 MT Racks MUX" with the 4 racks with Vsti and Musynth in a composer rack with 5 midi channel for now.
( perhaps i can use the event monitor here too )..let's look what happens..

[janhardo]

Thanks Taron and pljones for the effort!
It works 100 % as it seems.
I assigned in the composer rack midi channel 2 to 5 to the four racks and all sounds are to hear on the midi channels
The 16 MT Racks mux in the composer looks like a session mux in Mulab.

To get the same effect routing as in MUlab itself in the composer with effect racks is maybe a bridge too far ?

[Taron]

See, as silly as it seems, sometimes it helps a great deal to understand better who we are, you know. It's not about prejudice, but just to gage where you're coming from in terms of experience and all that.

I'm sure we'll figure it out, but rest assured, it's normally not too complicated at the end. Piece by piece!

[pljones]

Thanks!

This bit I don't understand. Is this something in the host? If so, can you try this:

It is no problem to make 16 composer racks for 16 midi channels with 16 MUX vsti

You now raise an unrelated question. Why is that? Did you try what I actually asked you to try? What was the result?

So the question now is what do(can) we want to achieve more ?

More than 16 MIDI channels? That is meaningless - MIDI events only support 16 (2^4) channels because there is only storage for 4 bits of channel information.

[Taron]

First it's important not to fear or get anxious about presumptions. The beauty of working with DAWs is that they really don't care about midi channel limitations. If you control real live synthesizer hardware, you might have to be concerned, but in the virtual world, limits only exist in form of processing power of your computer. ...well, yes, and in form of the degree of genius beheld by developers.
But in DAW cases, even the least gifted developer won't run you into Midi Channel limitations!
If you need more than 16 instruments, but you want to stick with MUX, add another MUX. If you had created specific effects that you want to keep or any kind of complicated setup, just save your first MUX and load another instance of it. In the racks you can then replace the instruments with the new instruments you want.
On your tracks in the composer you just aim at the new instance of your MUX with all your new tracks (17, 18, 19....).

I'm not sure if MUX has a way to switch banks like in Kontakt (A, B, C, D).
I've never ever stumbled into such troubles, if you can imagine that, and I've made songs that had well over 16 instruments, hahaha, as in well, well, well over...just don't remember what the highest was, yet. I like making orchestral pieces, you know.

[janhardo]

No not raise a unrelated question...because there is also a another midi racks configuration possible.. i don't know yet wich one is the best
- 16 midicomposer racks for each midi channel
- composerrack what housing 16 midi channels ( fabricatated with the midi splitter )

It is a good idea to store some MUX : single musynths with assigned midi channels

-----------info from synfire--------------
Selecting the FreeAlpha DD in an arrangement adds a copy of it to the rack. So, if you have 4 instances of FreeAlpha, you will end up with 4 copies of the DD in yor arrangement.

Note that FreeAlpha has a single channel 1 only. It can select many programs, but only 1 at a time. That is, if you want 4 different sounds from FreeAlpha (or any other single-timbral synth for that matter), you need to load 4 instances of the plug-in and assign them (a copy of) the DD each.

To avoid making copies, you can add 4 connectors to the DD (A, B, C, D) and use these to connect 4 individual rack modules (= plug-in slots) to a single copy of the DD.

.

[Taron]

Honestly, I can't shake the feeling that you do tend to over-complicate things.
If all you really care about is to make music with many different instruments, you can just keep adding individual instruments for each track.
It's no longer like in a real studio with midi wires and all that.
It really is like a dream come true.
I don't know how complicated synfire is, but I'd like to assume that they've tried to make it easier?
Ableton was a little confusing to me at first, and so could Cubase be, but MuLab is extremely easy in that regard.
There you can even drag and drop any instruments into the open area of the track bar on the left and it automatically adds a new track and a new rack for you. In fact, I think it's the easiest DAW of them all on that part of the process. Yet, you can go deeper and deeper, if you wanted to and manipulate things that hardly any DAW allows you to change or add.

Still, for almost $1,000, I think Synfire should make it pretty easy, too, but I just don't know.

[janhardo]

Can becomes quickly overcomplicate ...keep it simple as possible and practical and don't ask too much
There is also Synfire Express, a good starting point, what is smaller version then Synfire Pro and half cheaper.
Synfire is not a easy program and userfriendlyness is poor in some parts of the program.
That's why i like Mulab, but the modular programming in Mulab is also not that easy.
Yes, 16 midi channels in the composer ..one rack for every midi channel with a MUX vsti..ready no installation needed with a midi splitter.
To chance a sound in a composer rack with the same device description a connector can be used

[pljones]

like in Kontakt (A, B, C, D).

If you're talking about the four assignable MIDI input busses, these are not available when running as a VSTi, as far as I remember, because the VST protocol does not allow for it.

[janhardo]

In HAlion5 there are 64 Midichannels with (A,B,C and D) too
In the composer you could assign in Rack 1 all 16 A sounds in Rack 2 all 16 B sounds and so on
I can make 4 racks with 4 multi -timbral Vsti loaded and assign 64 instrument channels to it
This seems to be not possible in MUlab/MUX yet, because i must load for every midi channel a Vsti ?

But as it works now in Mulab with the racks and effects..i don't see this working for a rack with one Vsti loaded and 16 midi channels..so forget this about a multi timbral vsti.

[bibz1st]

Is it Halion that's creating the extra channels internally though, they are not true midi channels are they ??

[janhardo]

Halion can create 64 slotbus channels in the mixer ( A,B,C and D..each16 midi channels ) and has 32 stereo outputs
If i make 64 midi channels are they default routed to the master channel as it seems.
I don't now how many midi channels you get in Cubase itself with Halion5, but i think 64

In Mulab there are 16 midi channels ?

[mutools]

As pljones already said before: a VST plugin can only receive 16 channels as it has only 1 MIDI port. That's how VST is constructed.

[janhardo]

I don't see it yet how to get more then 16 midi channels in Mulab..?
Halion 5 has a lot flexphrases to get a realistic sound in the soundmodule..all flexphrases can be exported as a midi file in Mulab ( if you do this ..bypass (off) the flexphrase unit in HALion5)