Hi There,
This is kind of a long post so if you want to skip to the bottom to get to the root of my question. Go ahead.
I'm getting back into guitar after taking a long time off. I was pretty good at playing some of the solos that I learned back in the day between Ozzy, Van Halen, Jimi stuff. Some if it was learned by ear and others by tabs.
But I can't quite remember how to play a lot of these solos. It's a bit frustrating because when I could play them well, I knew them through muscle memory. But I'd like to commit the note sequences to my long-term memory.
Also, even when I was good at playing these solos, if I was playing in front of someone and mess up, I would mess the whole thing up because basically I was relying on muscle memory and once tripped up, couldn't get back on trip easily. If I made it through the solo with no key mistakes, I could play the solos perfectly but it's kind of frustrating knowing that if I trip once, I'll blow the rest of it because I have trouble getting on track.
I suppose if I had a more accomplished background in theory/scales I would have more of a frame of reference.
Does anybody have some good techniques/tricks for memorizing long solos? Do you remember everything note by note or are you visualizing the string/fret number to play next in your head or are you just remembering root notes in certain parts of the solo?
Thanks in advance!
Guitar Question - Tips On Remember Notes In Long Guitar Solos
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- KVRAF
- 15253 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
Practice, practice, and practice... There's no shortcut alas.
Regarding messing up, I had that as well. It was only after I was able to improvise I could rescue myself partially. You can't always get back on the right beaten path, but you can still pretend you do something different than all other guitarists playing that riff or solo on purpose. Main key there is repeat the mistake but with self-confidence and without hesistation.
Regarding messing up, I had that as well. It was only after I was able to improvise I could rescue myself partially. You can't always get back on the right beaten path, but you can still pretend you do something different than all other guitarists playing that riff or solo on purpose. Main key there is repeat the mistake but with self-confidence and without hesistation.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. 
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
I know the problem of which you speak very well, I've had similar problems. Muscle memory is notoriously unreliable. Helpful, but unreliable. There are a couple of tips that I've picked up over time for memorizing (these are based on academic research on learning and cognition, just applied to music) that might be helpful:
1) Learn phrases. It's much easier to remember things if you can put them into big chunks. Try to memorize a speech in a foreign language and it's easy to see this. You can remember long speeches in your own language because you put things together into meaningful sentences. Your brain sort of does this grouping naturally, but it's a good exercise to think about the bigger chunks of material and how they fit together. This can be helped by playing phrase by phrase, maybe repeating each phrase in isolation three times, then move to the next phrase. As you do this, you'll be building those larger mental units.
2) Get the meaning! Mentally sketch out what each phrase is saying, so that you can see how the sentences (phrases) fit together to form whole paragraphs. That doesn't just give those bigger, easier to memorize chunks, but it also gives you a narrative or story that ties them all together. The cool thing about meaning is that if you get lost for a second, you can pick the flow back up a lot more easily than if your muscle memory fails you. This is a lot like the phrase to phrase thing, but I've found it beneficial to actually write down the structure of the solo on a piece of paper. The visual cue of that written structure helps to support the finger memory, and the more different supports you can build in, the less likely you are to get lost.
3) Sing, sing, sing! Even if you have a bad voice, try to sing the phrases. That forces you to think about the musical direction and phrasing rather than finger positions. I've occasionally been shocked by how I can practice a piece over and over, but then can't sing it very well away from the piano because I stopped listening to what I was doing. Singing also helps support your finger memory with your aural memory.
None of this is a shortcut. All of this requires practice, like BertKoor says. There's no substitute for putting in the time. It's just that there's also a difference between just slogging away practicing versus intelligent practicing. Fortunately, all of these tips will not only help you memorize the piece, they'll help you play more musically. I also want to be clear in saying that the tips above are based on a lot of conversations with other musicians and from reading what people have figured out in other fields. This isn't just my experience, so you don't have to trust me too much here...
Just as a final add on to what BertKoor said, improvising does help with understanding phrasing and meaning, because when you're making up your own variations on an existing piece, you do start to understand the choices the musician was making in the first place, and you recognize things like harmonic and melodic patterns across songs that constitute meaningful units. It's a great suggestion he made.
1) Learn phrases. It's much easier to remember things if you can put them into big chunks. Try to memorize a speech in a foreign language and it's easy to see this. You can remember long speeches in your own language because you put things together into meaningful sentences. Your brain sort of does this grouping naturally, but it's a good exercise to think about the bigger chunks of material and how they fit together. This can be helped by playing phrase by phrase, maybe repeating each phrase in isolation three times, then move to the next phrase. As you do this, you'll be building those larger mental units.
2) Get the meaning! Mentally sketch out what each phrase is saying, so that you can see how the sentences (phrases) fit together to form whole paragraphs. That doesn't just give those bigger, easier to memorize chunks, but it also gives you a narrative or story that ties them all together. The cool thing about meaning is that if you get lost for a second, you can pick the flow back up a lot more easily than if your muscle memory fails you. This is a lot like the phrase to phrase thing, but I've found it beneficial to actually write down the structure of the solo on a piece of paper. The visual cue of that written structure helps to support the finger memory, and the more different supports you can build in, the less likely you are to get lost.
3) Sing, sing, sing! Even if you have a bad voice, try to sing the phrases. That forces you to think about the musical direction and phrasing rather than finger positions. I've occasionally been shocked by how I can practice a piece over and over, but then can't sing it very well away from the piano because I stopped listening to what I was doing. Singing also helps support your finger memory with your aural memory.
None of this is a shortcut. All of this requires practice, like BertKoor says. There's no substitute for putting in the time. It's just that there's also a difference between just slogging away practicing versus intelligent practicing. Fortunately, all of these tips will not only help you memorize the piece, they'll help you play more musically. I also want to be clear in saying that the tips above are based on a lot of conversations with other musicians and from reading what people have figured out in other fields. This isn't just my experience, so you don't have to trust me too much here...
Just as a final add on to what BertKoor said, improvising does help with understanding phrasing and meaning, because when you're making up your own variations on an existing piece, you do start to understand the choices the musician was making in the first place, and you recognize things like harmonic and melodic patterns across songs that constitute meaningful units. It's a great suggestion he made.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1086 posts since 17 Jun, 2012
Thank you!!! This is exactly the type of answer I was looking for. I want you to know that I really appreciate all the time and time and effort you put into writing and organizing your thoughts in this way. I thought I was on an island maybe with this question but I see that it can be a problem.jopy wrote:I know the problem of which you speak very well, I've had similar problems. Muscle memory is notoriously unreliable. Helpful, but unreliable. There are a couple of tips that I've picked up over time for memorizing (these are based on academic research on learning and cognition, just applied to music) that might be helpful:
1) Learn phrases. It's much easier to remember things if you can put them into big chunks. Try to memorize a speech in a foreign language and it's easy to see this. You can remember long speeches in your own language because you put things together into meaningful sentences. Your brain sort of does this grouping naturally, but it's a good exercise to think about the bigger chunks of material and how they fit together. This can be helped by playing phrase by phrase, maybe repeating each phrase in isolation three times, then move to the next phrase. As you do this, you'll be building those larger mental units.
2) Get the meaning! Mentally sketch out what each phrase is saying, so that you can see how the sentences (phrases) fit together to form whole paragraphs. That doesn't just give those bigger, easier to memorize chunks, but it also gives you a narrative or story that ties them all together. The cool thing about meaning is that if you get lost for a second, you can pick the flow back up a lot more easily than if your muscle memory fails you. This is a lot like the phrase to phrase thing, but I've found it beneficial to actually write down the structure of the solo on a piece of paper. The visual cue of that written structure helps to support the finger memory, and the more different supports you can build in, the less likely you are to get lost.
3) Sing, sing, sing! Even if you have a bad voice, try to sing the phrases. That forces you to think about the musical direction and phrasing rather than finger positions. I've occasionally been shocked by how I can practice a piece over and over, but then can't sing it very well away from the piano because I stopped listening to what I was doing. Singing also helps support your finger memory with your aural memory.
None of this is a shortcut. All of this requires practice, like BertKoor says. There's no substitute for putting in the time. It's just that there's also a difference between just slogging away practicing versus intelligent practicing. Fortunately, all of these tips will not only help you memorize the piece, they'll help you play more musically. I also want to be clear in saying that the tips above are based on a lot of conversations with other musicians and from reading what people have figured out in other fields. This isn't just my experience, so you don't have to trust me too much here...
Just as a final add on to what BertKoor said, improvising does help with understanding phrasing and meaning, because when you're making up your own variations on an existing piece, you do start to understand the choices the musician was making in the first place, and you recognize things like harmonic and melodic patterns across songs that constitute meaningful units. It's a great suggestion he made.
Relying on muscle memory because you practiced it a few times doesn't get you the full context. I'll take note of these tips and expect to make strides with this endeavor.
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- KVRAF
- 1585 posts since 13 Nov, 2005 from St. Paul
Glad to hear that I could pass on this advice. As I said, it's all stuff that I've had other people recommend to me over time or that I've read about. I hope you find it as useful as I have.
