One Synth Challenge #76: Mantra Evo (Syntax Project Wins!)

[chilledpanda]

Hi folks been a while hope your all well and good.
Well I manage to find some time this week and knocked out a quick track, something hopefully a little bit different.

https://soundcloud.com/chilled-panda/ch ... et-discord

Chilled Panda - "Brooding Over Coffee (Lifes Bittersweet Discord)"
Daw: Reaper
Mantra Evo - 13 instances

Daw FX
Reaeq
Reacomp
Reaxcomp

Freeware FX
TDR Feedback compressor II
Loudmax 64
Classic master limiter
clssic reverb
classic delay
Tal reverb III
A1 stereo control

[actioncat]

Here's mine, managed to get something done in a week, wooo.

https://soundcloud.com/action-cat-1/act ... the-mantra

Made in FL Studio
16 instances of Mantra Evo

Plugins used:
Maximus
JS Comp Shaper
Fruity Parametric EQ 2
Fruity Delay 2
Antress Modern Vacuumer
GComp 2
Camel Crusher
Elysia Niveau Filter
A1 Stereo Control
De la Mancha GTX
Thrillseeker LA
Density MK III
MVerb
MCompressor

[RichardSemper]

Sorry to interrupt. I'm here mostly to learn smth, as it was written in the topic's header.

Is there a way to learn equalizing? I know all the theory, I do music for a long time, but still my eqing process in a noncritical tracks is mostly random, and my renders are cold and plastic (I do a lot of saturation, but it doesn't help in a way that I need). Is there a strict way to learn eq by numbers, or tools for it? Because my ears are lying to me a lot.

Thank you.

Would love to help, but am still going through learning and practicing this myself.
I find a lot of useful stuff in Computer Music mag. for e.g. issue 215 from April this year was all about modern EQ, with lots of articles and tutorial videos.
Also, have you thought about using plugins which can do EQ matching? There are some which apparently can analyse a track you like and match your track to the same frequency ranges automatically, for e.g. Melda Productions MMAutodynamicEQ I think, though not tried this yet myself.

[chilledpanda]

Sorry to interrupt. I'm here mostly to learn smth, as it was written in the topic's header.

Is there a way to learn equalizing? I know all the theory, I do music for a long time, but still my eqing process in a noncritical tracks is mostly random, and my renders are cold and plastic (I do a lot of saturation, but it doesn't help in a way that I need). Is there a strict way to learn eq by numbers, or tools for it? Because my ears are lying to me a lot.

Thank you.

Would love to help, but am still going through learning and practicing this myself.
I find a lot of useful stuff in Computer Music mag. for e.g. issue 215 from April this year was all about modern EQ, with lots of articles and tutorial videos.
Also, have you thought about using plugins which can do EQ matching? There are some which apparently can analyse a track you like and match your track to the same frequency ranges automatically, for e.g. Melda Productions MMAutodynamicEQ I think, though not tried this yet myself.

There is this http://www.cheatography.com/fredv/cheat-sheets/eq-tips/ very useful handy cheat sheet that gives you a reference to where frequency of instruments etc lie with hints on cuts/boosts and their effect at the different frequencies etc.

[SinnerSign]

Would love to help, but am still going through learning and practicing this myself.
I find a lot of useful stuff in Computer Music mag. for e.g. issue 215 from April this year was all about modern EQ, with lots of articles and tutorial videos.
Also, have you thought about using plugins which can do EQ matching? There are some which apparently can analyse a track you like and match your track to the same frequency ranges automatically, for e.g. Melda Productions MMAutodynamicEQ I think, though not tried this yet myself.

Thank you very much!

Of course I know about EQ matching. It is a good way to learn eqing, but hardly a production tool:) Mostly because of its semi-deaf nature, the distribution of frequencies is not the only characteristic of sound, and sometimes "to sound like" is not equal to "to have the same freqency balance".

I achieve better results with matching of overall sound of source material. Just isolate the same critical band of needed width in a source and target phonograms, listen to the source and try to achieve the same tweaking the frequencies inside the band boundaries. This is not always the same as plain EQ matching, but it gives me better understanding of what I do.

I really hope that it may be useful for you. Good luck with the competition and further musicmaking

@chilledpanda Thank you very much. I can't get enough cheatsheets. Maybe this is what I am looking for.

[Taron]

The best thing ever for me was getting a good pair of headphones. A good starting pair is the Sennheiser HD280 Pro. And after that, do the loop of:
#1 practice, practice, practice.
#2 read some eq technique, and incorporate that
#3 go to #1

Thanks. But I have monitors and I do practice for a 10 years already. If you do something for a long time, you won't reach a new level of existence, you're just clipping your mistakes, because you repeat them over and over. I can give you a full-blown lecture about eq techniques, methods, theory and hardware realisations.

My problem is that every time I ask someone to help, free of charge or not, they repeat one thing: "Buy a better monitors and follow your ears". It's like "add everything by taste" in a cooking book. Is it a spoon or a full bag? Even if you're a skillful cook, even if you think that you do it right, even if you are praised, you might still do it wrong.

So, I follow my ears when I compose, I love every little sound I can find. But then it's time to crash and squish them, and when it's not about solving a frequency overlapping, all eq goes the typical way, but not where I want it to go, making my masters totally lifeless and plastic. That's not what everybody tell me (they are mostly satisfied with the result), that's what I see myself.

Again: I don't have any problems with eq "as it is", I have a problem with making it less all over the place and more sufficient, transparent and warm. And I'd prefer strict instructions.. Hope I made it clear.

Yes, indeed, I'm quoting...and I never quote! But what the freaking hell is that for a response, if you want anyone to ever consider helping you out?

Surely you are frustrated, as is probably almost everyone at one point or another, but wait until a friendly clarification of yours meets ignorance of some kind before flying off the handle like that!

That being said, there are a number of things to consider when you EQ.
A. try to cut down, rather than to raise!
B. judge the nature of your trouble, when you listen to it: Is it too muddy, stuffy somehow. Then you have overall too much saturation around 400hz. Is it too tinny, then check your 1k-2k range.
C. tune your EQ to your tonic (harmony) where appropriate. You can look up related frequencies or check with Voxengo SPAN and a simple sine sound on your notes to get it right.
D. As long as you're as lost as many of us, make good use of a spectral analyzer/view besides SPAN. Compare it to songs you like with their mix. Adobe Audition has a really nice spectral view.
E. Often it's not as much the EQ as it is the arrangement. Check that your sounds and tracks go into their own space and fill gaps with music more than with EQ!
F. Watch your effects, especially reverbs. Sometimes you want to EQ those to avoid spilling all over the place.
G. Loudness appears to hang within the mid to lower mid region, but it's best brought forth via a limiter/compressor, where it can actually get boosted dramatically without destroying the sound. I found that quite impressive. Try that mad Limiter "Maxwell Smart", although it's only 32 bit, jbridge works fine for me. I just found it and it's pretty stunning.

I'm writing this to share my thoughts on it with everybody, because it is a burning topic for all of us. I hope, it's helpful, but I wished you'd go about it a bit friendlier and humble, that's for sure.

[bjporter]

The musical representation of a blue pixel.

https://soundcloud.com/bjporter/bjporter-pixel


Thanks to Duarte, Animehaus, MTLE, Richard, and others who contributed patches.

Cubase Channel EQ, Studio EQ, Ping Pong, Compressor, Gate
TAL Filter 2, Reverb III, I think a tad of Tal Tube
Kjauerhaus Classic Reverb
George Yohng W1 limiter
RS-met Engineer Filter
Voxengo Span

About 18 instances
Cubase 6

Project File download


There is so much I need to improve: Composition, rhythm, and variation of beats.

[RichardSemper]

The musical representation of a blue pixel.

The shade of blue is just perfect. Maybe in time it can make friends with some of the pink pixels?

[SinnerSign]

@Taron I don't know what are you talking about. Did you find frustration and unfriendliness somewhere between the characters? You're wrong, I assure you. You see, English is not my native language, so I use Google Translate heavily, and sometimes it makes phrases seem too official. Also, I wanted to clarify everything as soon as I've seen the first typical answer "Buy the headphones and read more books". Though I am very grateful to all the advicers, this was totally out of the point. And I wanted to clarify it as best as I can. Third, I am not an internet person, neither I am a KVR user on a regular basis, so I don't know much of the typical talking style here. So, if you got me wrong, forgive me.

Big thanks for the advices.

[bjporter]

@Taron I don't know what are you talking about. Did you find frustration and unfriendliness somewhere between the characters? You're wrong, I assure you. You see, English is not my native language, so I use Google Translate heavily, and sometimes it makes phrases seem too official. Also, I wanted to clarify everything as soon as I've seen the first typical answer "Buy the headphones and read more books". Though I am very grateful to all the advicers, this was totally out of the point. And I wanted to clarify it as best as I can. Third, I am not an internet person, neither I am a KVR user on a regular basis, so I don't know much of the typical talking style here. So, if you got me wrong, forgive me.

Big thanks for the advices.

Using a spectral analyzer really helps to see how the pieces of a song fit together.


And... hopefully if all goes well voting will start in 7-12 hours. Good day /evening everyone

[NedK]

I re-uploaded another version of my tune. Very minor changes. I wasn't able to spend any time today like I figured on. I had some problems with rendering (my computer is old and weak) Finally got a wave file rendered without pops and clicks, but couldn't turn it into an MP3 without all kinds of weirdness. So I uploaded the wave file. Anyway, the info is in my previous post.

https://soundcloud.com/nedk-1/not-quite-rite

[RichardSemper]

Oops, owing to a slight error i had to upload my tune again, sorry! This means likes, reposts and comments have gone so here it is again
https://soundcloud.com/richard-semper/r ... ntra-rocks

See earlier post and soundcloud for descriptions etc. Nothing has changed.

[Taron]

Yeah, it can be difficult sometimes to communicate, even in person, let alone only in written form. If you want people to give you more precise answers, you have to explain a bit more about your background, you know. At the time we couldn't hear your song, yet, so it was hard to guess where you are at.
Now that I can listen to it I can tell you right away that you put too many elements into the exact same frequency range, creating a rather dense clutter. I'm not sure exactly how you could clean that up with EQ only. I assume that that's rather impossible. Some of the bass sounds even have high frequency filter drops, intruding into the rest of the frequency band, essentially cluttering up everything.
Sometimes you have to take a massive step back and reconsider the atmosphere you want to create. It's challenging, because I believe I understand what you want and the feeling you believe you have achieved with it already. Cleaning it up could make it feel a lot emptier at first. In this case, somehow I remember the beautiful Bjork debut "Army of me". I don't know, if I remember it correctly, but I get some of that feeling from it. You might want to check it out!

So, yeah, no need to hide it, when you are frustrated, because it is normal. I don't dare speak for everybody now, but I know for sure that I've been there and I'm still getting frustrated every now and then. My knowledge/understanding is even after 25 years still insufficient in my opinion, but I've been told earlier in this thread that I should stop bitching about my own mixes, hahaha! ...I am still insecure about them, though. So don't worry and most of all: Admit to yourself that you know very little and the great world of mixing is still a giant journey ahead of you. Just like it is for most of us! I certainly love a good journey, though!

All is forgiven and forgive me, if I speak out, when I sense some trouble. We all have to learn to respect each other and understand how to express that respect. It's not about lying or pretending, but about empathy, thinking about the other, when we talk to each other. I know, I can screw up big time in that department myself, that's for sure, but it takes a bit more than a friendly reply to make me sound angry.

[SinnerSign]

Using a spectral analyzer really helps to see how the pieces of a song fit together.

Using sonograph helps even more, one can see master's work in dynamic.

@Taron Yeah, it'll be far more easier, if I did something minimalistic, that's for sure. But I do like my mixes to be dense and somewhat dark. So, very few typical "just cut off lows" are working, and you must reinvent the way of eqing from time to time. I analyse someone else's work all the time, and see how they manage to change their workflow pretty easily, especially in minor electronic genres. And I am jealous about it.

Anyway, thanks for understanding. Good luck with the voting!

[mehum]

Ok, to jump on the EQ train

All of Tarons points are certainly valid and one important thing those points touches is that EQ is not always (or even very often) the solution.
I prefer to generally think of EQ as a solution to a problem which is generally either taming rogue frequencies or fitting stuff together that occupies similar spectrums.
For master EQ it's also useful to really think about it as an "equalizer" in the literal sense. Mostly to push down bass frequencies.

If I read on and between the lines of SinnerSign's problem, I would describe this as: "End result sounds cold and plastic to me, although other people don't seem to always agree".

So first there is a question of defining the words "cold and plastic". And I'm not talking about a general definition that everyone will agree on, that is a futile task, but to simply answer the question of: what does it mean to me?

It might be helpful to try and create a frame of reference. Does your mixes always sound cold and plastic? Can you find pieces nthat are not your own, that also sound cold and plastic? What is the opposite ("warm and organic"?) and what are good examples of that? Again, although many people may agree on those terms, these are essentially personal questions.

Now you might be able to figure out what properties make something cold, plastic, warm or organic.
Note that this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with frequency spectrum. It may be anything but I believe the key here is to deconstruct both the terminology and the examples to things that can be quantified, as opposed to metaphors.

You might find that a low passed noise give you warmth. You might find that what you find plastic is a timing issue. You might find that there really is no difference, that you're only deceiving yourself by listening to your own music in a very different way than you listen to other music.

If the issue truly is with the frequency spectrum, still EQ might not be the proper way to deal with it. As Taron wrote, arrangement is very often the key. Think about your instrumentation and source sounds.

Lastly, if you find EQ is the best way to deal with the problem, the "cut, don't boost" rule is generally good. Remember that EQ (unless it's a "character EQ") never really adds anything and boosting more than 1-2db is usually not a great idea. Of course there's a lot of special EQ tricks that people adhere to (push-pull is a classic) but unless you know what you're doing I'd avoid them. Or try them out and see what they do In my mind the "do whatever as long as it sounds good"-philosophy is useless if you're actually trying to learn something.

Lastly, don't overthink it. You will always judge your own work differently. Especially if you've worked intensively with one track. Get some perspective and time off. Generally I'd even say: Making a final mix or, especially, master of your own music will never be optimal. Listening to a track a million times seriously messes up your hearing...