One Synth Challenge #76: Mantra Evo (Syntax Project Wins!)

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Mantra Evo

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Finally finished with the voting process. Good luck everyone!

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Phew :o - even with a relatively small number of tracks that was still hard work :dog: - so many good sounds there - well done all :tu:

Just to say ********* DoctorBob has voted ***********

.... but may still tinker with some placings before the deadline :)

dB

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Voted! :)

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wagtunes wrote:Voted

Here are the tracks I gave 5s to.

Richard Semper - Great rock track
mcaitch - Another great rock track
Syntax Project - Psytrance like I've never heard it. My pick to take it all
Taron - One of the most unusual tracks I've ever heard

The submissions overall were excellent. This OSC really surprised me. I really underestimated this synth. Just goes to show you, talent will find a way to bring out the most in a synth.

I am humbled in the presence of such greatness.
My warmest thanks, Steven! I am very happy to hear that you liked my entry for this month too :)

I will make comments and vote in a couple of days...

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Alright, have listened closely an all entries. Most a few times. Commented on all of them, I think.

As usual, I try to be both opiniated and helpful and hope I don't seem arrogant instead :P

I like how it goes from "I hate this synth" to "Mantra Rocks".
Ironically this is probably the closest OSC, in terms of general quality, I've entered so far. Not really any clear 1:s or 2:s for me so will have to struggle to use the full spectrum...

Good work, everybody!

Now, off to voting...

Edit: Voted

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Yeah, this is only my second OSC and from my experiences with the first (#75) I realized that it's probably best to only pick one 5er up there and distribute properly the remaining tracks. That makes 4pnts really excellent and 5pnts simply totally outstanding.
This way, though, I imagine it's a bit easier to sort out? :shrug:

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There's no need to use the full spectrum. I very rarely give 1's (except for myself, of course), and most of my votes are usually 3's and 4's.

Of course each one has a particular way of voting, but I prefer to give 5's to more than one track if they're really outstanding: don't feel the need to choose one "super-über-mega" track among all others, specially when there are usually so many absolutely awesome tracks.

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I did feel the same in my first go at voting, but then I realized that the chances my one most favorite track has to win will go down, if I put others on the same level, you know. Of course, if you simply do not have a favorite track, well then... sure.

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Taron wrote:I did feel the same in my first go at voting, but then I realized that the chances my one most favorite track has to win will go down, if I put others on the same level, you know. Of course, if you simply do not have a favorite track, well then... sure.
Let me preface this with the following disclaimer.

** DISCLAIMER ** As voting is all opinion based, there is no right or wrong way. Each person has to vote as they feel is right for them.

Now that that is out of the way, here is my opinion on the whole "This is my favorite track so everything else has to be voted down" issue.

Here is how I rate tracks.

5 - Absolutely amazing mix, performance, composition, sound design, etc. Pro quality IMO. Blows my mind totally. Mouth hung open in total awe.

4 - Excellent track but missing something. Maybe the composition doesn't do it for me. Maybe I felt the mix could have been a little better. It's just not a 5 but it's close, usually.

3 - Average track. It's well done but nothing really stands out. Kind of like pleasant elevator music. It's just okay.

2 - Lacks a lot. Could be a poor mix or music that just does nothing for me. Lots of things could make a track a 2 for me.

1 - God awful. Most 1s are total noise or drones. I rarely give them but when I do, it is for a very good reason. To me, a 1 shows total lack of effort and caring.

Now, if I hear 10 tracks that totally blow my mind, I'm not going to hunt for a favorite of the 10 and vote down the rest to a 4. It's absurd.

In this month's contest I think I had 4 5s. One was my favorite, the psytrance one. But no way in hell do I vote down the other 3 tracks because they were just as solidly done as the psytrance track. I do hope the psytrance track wins but the other 3 tracks fit my criteria for a 5 and thus I gave them a 5.

In other words, I don't compare tracks. I vote for each one on its own merits. And with some synths that are easier to use, this may very well mean more high scores. So be it. Why should somebody's amazing effort be penalized because we might like another amazing effort a little bit more? Makes no sense to me. If we continue this trend down, certainly you had to have a second favorite among all the 4s. So what happens to the rest? You knock them all down to 3s?

Where does it end?

Taking this to the pro level, my favorite kind of music has and always will be progressive rock. And of all the prog rock bands, these are my favorite ones.

Renaissance
Kansas
Genesis

Yes, I listed them in order of how I like them.

Does that mean I give Renaissance a 5, Kansas a 4 and Genesis a 3?

It's ludicrous. All these bands, including ELP who is number 4 and Yes who is number 5, are amazing. They're all 5s.

I believe we should judge a track on ITS merits and not against other tracks.

Before anybody jumps all over me for this, please read my disclaimer up top.

Because ultimately, that's what everybody's gonna do anyway.

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Man, I so understand and I'm really with you, but those numbers 1-5 really are just numbers and you can assign to them which ever meaning you wish. At the end they'll get added up to determine some sort of charts. Hit the top 3 (or 5?) and you'll get some generous bonbon. This part of it is really just a game. The most important part I see in it is that each and everyone of us is having creative fun, not to be ranked and possibly rewarded, but to share with each other our music, learn together and from each other how to improve all aspects of music, tease and tickle each other to ever greater understanding for a lot of things, especially mixing in my case, but also ingenuity of arrangement and composition, of course.
What if 7 songs have the exact same number of points, because their awesome excellence was undeniable? Is it then lottery on who fills the top 3 (or 5?).
I had placed 9 5ers in the last OSC, because I just couldn't get myself to put any of them into a less than stunning slot. But who says that 4pnts is "less than stunning?", you know. My favorite of them, for example, was not- uh, eh...forgot the name- the winner.
Anyway... it really is just a game and it's not about the voting or winning, but about the fantastic joy it brings to experience each others musicality. I love it and consider that the biggest trophy! :hyper:

By the way, I'm a massive sucker for progressive rock, too, and love the original Genesis as well. Marillion kind of took over what the original Genesis started, I think, until they've also changed lead singers and sort of...ah...never mind. But I'm a scene-retard, no clue about bands and such, because I always rather made music almost reclusive for the most time. If it wasn't for my wife and my friends, I'd never known any other artists, but I'm eternally grateful for being pulled out of my shell at least a little, hehe.
Right now, with all of you, I'm in total candy land, so very happy! So...thank you all! :hug:
(Just a little side note) :)

On little addon: [like] tells the greater truth. ;)

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wagtunes wrote:
Taron wrote:I did feel the same in my first go at voting, but then I realized that the chances my one most favorite track has to win will go down, if I put others on the same level, you know. Of course, if you simply do not have a favorite track, well then... sure.
Let me preface this with the following disclaimer.

** DISCLAIMER ** As voting is all opinion based, there is no right or wrong way. Each person has to vote as they feel is right for them.

Now that that is out of the way, here is my opinion on the whole "This is my favorite track so everything else has to be voted down" issue.

Here is how I rate tracks.

5 - Absolutely amazing mix, performance, composition, sound design, etc. Pro quality IMO. Blows my mind totally. Mouth hung open in total awe.

4 - Excellent track but missing something. Maybe the composition doesn't do it for me. Maybe I felt the mix could have been a little better. It's just not a 5 but it's close, usually.

3 - Average track. It's well done but nothing really stands out. Kind of like pleasant elevator music. It's just okay.

2 - Lacks a lot. Could be a poor mix or music that just does nothing for me. Lots of things could make a track a 2 for me.

1 - God awful. Most 1s are total noise or drones. I rarely give them but when I do, it is for a very good reason. To me, a 1 shows total lack of effort and caring.

Now, if I hear 10 tracks that totally blow my mind, I'm not going to hunt for a favorite of the 10 and vote down the rest to a 4. It's absurd.

In this month's contest I think I had 4 5s. One was my favorite, the psytrance one. But no way in hell do I vote down the other 3 tracks because they were just as solidly done as the psytrance track. I do hope the psytrance track wins but the other 3 tracks fit my criteria for a 5 and thus I gave them a 5.

In other words, I don't compare tracks. I vote for each one on its own merits. And with some synths that are easier to use, this may very well mean more high scores. So be it. Why should somebody's amazing effort be penalized because we might like another amazing effort a little bit more? Makes no sense to me. If we continue this trend down, certainly you had to have a second favorite among all the 4s. So what happens to the rest? You knock them all down to 3s?

Where does it end?

Taking this to the pro level, my favorite kind of music has and always will be progressive rock. And of all the prog rock bands, these are my favorite ones.

Renaissance
Kansas
Genesis

Yes, I listed them in order of how I like them.

Does that mean I give Renaissance a 5, Kansas a 4 and Genesis a 3?

It's ludicrous. All these bands, including ELP who is number 4 and Yes who is number 5, are amazing. They're all 5s.

I believe we should judge a track on ITS merits and not against other tracks.

Before anybody jumps all over me for this, please read my disclaimer up top.

Because ultimately, that's what everybody's gonna do anyway.
Simply: :tu: :tu: :tu: :D
Simplicity without a name, is free from all external aim. With no desire, at rest and still,
all things go right as of their will.
Daodejing verse 37

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Taron wrote:Man, I so understand and I'm really with you, but those numbers 1-5 really are just numbers and you can assign to them which ever meaning you wish. At the end they'll get added up to determine some sort of charts. Hit the top 3 (or 5?) and you'll get some generous bonbon. This part of it is really just a game. The most important part I see in it is that each and everyone of us is having creative fun, not to be ranked and possibly rewarded, but to share with each other our music, learn together and from each other how to improve all aspects of music, tease and tickle each other to ever greater understanding for a lot of things, especially mixing in my case, but also ingenuity of arrangement and composition, of course.
What if 7 songs have the exact same number of points, because their awesome excellence was undeniable? Is it then lottery on who fills the top 3 (or 5?).
I had placed 9 5ers in the last OSC, because I just couldn't get myself to put any of them into a less than stunning slot. But who says that 4pnts is "less than stunning?", you know. My favorite of them, for example, was not- uh, eh...forgot the name- the winner.
Anyway... it really is just a game and it's not about the voting or winning, but about the fantastic joy it brings to experience each others musicality. I love it and consider that the biggest trophy! :hyper:

By the way, I'm a massive sucker for progressive rock, too, and love the original Genesis as well. Marillion kind of took over what the original Genesis started, I think, until they've also changed lead singers and sort of...ah...never mind. But I'm a scene-retard, no clue about bands and such, because I always rather made music almost reclusive for the most time. If it wasn't for my wife and my friends, I'd never known any other artists, but I'm eternally grateful for being pulled out of my shell at least a little, hehe.
Right now, with all of you, I'm in total candy land, so very happy! So...thank you all! :hug:
(Just a little side note) :)

On little addon: [like] tells the greater truth. ;)
I needed some time before I responded to this.

No, it's not a lottery who ends up winning.

Why?

Because everybody has their own opinion on what's a 5. My 5 may be your 3. Maybe you don't hear the same greatness. Maybe you're a harsher judge. Maybe you're an easier judge. Maybe we don't like the same things.

But if we all judge a track on ITS merits, the track that appeals to the MAJORITY is going to win. The results may be a little closer than they are now, but there WILL be a winner and it won't be a lottery. And if we should happen to have 2 or 3 people tie, so what? What's wrong with that? Should somebody's greatness be downgraded because there HAS to be a best and thus everybody else, no matter how great their track, has to be voted lower?

It's absurd.

"Hey man, your track is great and normally I'd give it a 5, but I have to pick a favorite and I like this guy's a little better so I'm knocking you down to a 4."

WTF?

I'm sorry, but I have a MAJOR problem with that rationale.

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Well, I look at it another way and (currently) see the scores as relative rather than absolute.

One reason is that it maximizes the impact of my vote which seems more fair to the ones I put on top scores. Utilizing the full spectrum also guards slightly against strategic voting.

Disregarding that you always give yourself a one there's really no difference between giving all 1's or all 5's. Both means you're not voting at all... So if all tracks would be great and you just vote 4 and 5 you're still very close to effectively abstaining your vote.

Now, I don't mind how everybody else vote and I've managed to stop obsessing much about my own as well, so like wagtunes this is just my personal way to think about this .

So, the 1's I give this month should not be seen as "this track is terrible " but rather "these were my least favorites this month".

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mehum wrote:Well, I look at it another way and (currently) see the scores as relative rather than absolute.

One reason is that it maximizes the impact of my vote which seems more fair to the ones I put on top scores. Utilizing the full spectrum also guards slightly against strategic voting.

Disregarding that you always give yourself a one there's really no difference between giving all 1's or all 5's. Both means you're not voting at all... So if all tracks would be great and you just vote 4 and 5 you're still very close to effectively abstaining your vote.

Now, I don't mind how everybody else vote and I've managed to stop obsessing much about my own as well, so like wagtunes this is just my personal way to think about this .

So, the 1's I give this month should not be seen as "this track is terrible " but rather "these were my least favorites this month".
YAY, I quote, too, now! :lol:
:tu:
wag, you got it all sideways, you know, because you really look at it as if it was a "rating" system. There's a big, massive difference between a "rating" system (5 stars) and a "voting" system, where you determine positions (1st place, 2nd place...).
Granted, this thing is somewhere between those worlds, but you do not determine (nor could you ever) the quality of a track. "WTF" only goes for your unfounded rage for a logic that is far more harmless than you think it is.

If you, for example, like my track, which makes me super happy, of course, did you hit [like] on soundcloud? Give me one point, I will never know it, but if I see someone committing to liking my track out there, that really makes me happy. It gives me an idea about whether I do something viable, worthy of true encouragement, you know.

I kinda hate bringing that up, because I really, honestly, have no interest in soliciting, but I just want to understand better what's going on really. Why is it so easy for me to admit that I like a track publicly while it may not have been my favorite of the lot and I give it only 4pnts in the OSC voting!? Because it is real! My "4' doesn't mean it's 4 stars as in "not perfect as it". It means that in this context there was a song that appealed to me more!
Or, one more take on it, if I was perfectly honest and in this honesty have to find that I simply like 5 tracks exactly the same and could not pick one I liked betters, then, yes...danged...all are Nr.1. I just felt that Syntax was blowing all of us out of the water with a massive and tight track that simply couldn't quite get touched by any of the other fantastic tracks. Sooooo.... all have 5 stars (heck 10 stars, or 100?!), but only Syntax gets 5pnts, you see?

Besides, this is not about winning an argument, really, screw that. I be the idiot, please: :clown: ...it's about clarifying a point of view so that it is really understood, that's all. You do not have to explain your point of view any more, because it's quite clear and I (the idiot) think you mix up voting for rating. :shrug:

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I can see your point of view and it makes sense. I can't use it for my own voting preferences because it would make the whole process way too complicated for me. I'd have to then take all my 5s and decide which one I like the best and then decide what to do with the others. Way too much work for, as what many have said, a friendly contest.

Like I said, we'll all do our own things and in the end I think the best track will ultimately win.

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