Roger Linn Design

randybrown · Post by **randybrown** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:32 am

Ableton Live is out as it only records 1 MIDI channel at a time. Presonus Studio One is out for the same reason. Propellerhead's Reason is out for the 1 channel record limitation as well as not being able to use AU/VSTs.

Cuckoo's Reaper is most definitely in. Does a beautiful job recording multi-channels and the various parameter controls LinnStrument sends. And it plays well through AU/VSTs.

I don't have access to other DAWs so I can't comment. Maybe someone else will fill in the blanks.

I've required multi MIDI channel recording because, to me, this is a the key feature of LinnStrument. Coupled with a sound source that is up to the task (Omnisphere, u-he's Bazille, Madrona Labs' Aalto), LinnStrument is a very expressive instrument. To record this you need a capable DAW.

gbevin · Post by **gbevin** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:44 am

Imho Cubase might be the most suited at this time since it has ChannelPerNote MIDI recording support through its note expression feature. This can be activated by setting a MIDI track to accept Any MIDI channel instead of a particular one.

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:42 pm

randybrown wrote:Ableton Live is out as it only records 1 MIDI channel at a time.

Ive been messing with an approach that get around this, basically you have 16 tracks, which are grouped, and then you use a M4L device, its function is to make one track master, and the others to slave from it.
e.g.
- when you alter the output device, it reflects this in all 16 tracks.
- when you arm the master track, it arms the others.
works reasonably well, but I need to finish it off, and also want to improve its integration with push.

randybrown wrote: Cuckoo's Reaper is most definitely in. Does a beautiful job recording multi-channels

oooh, details... Ive never got on with Reaper, but Id love to hear how this works...
is it per note expression, or using N tracks?

Logic, ok for playback, but not recording.

Bitwig, basically same issues as Live at the moment, BUT they have told me they are interested in supporting voice per channel, unfortunately, its on the wish list, and given bitwig is version 1.x, that list is long!
the good news, is they do have per note expression, its just missing a few things we need to make it useable
... Im pretty hopeful, mid term (2.0? when we also get the modular system?) it could be a real contender.

randybrown wrote:I've required multi MIDI channel recording

deep down I want this too, but in practice, I never seem to actually need it, I just record the audio... which seems a bit more manageable. but perhaps this would be different if I saw a tool, which handled the mass of data produced in a more friendly/useable manner... e.g. say could smooth out expression across N channels.

I guess the winner at the moment is cubase... but I have to say I like Lives approach too much to switch to a linear based daw.

(I really wish Propellerhead would add voice per channel CV, it would make Reason awesome!)

randybrown · Post by **randybrown** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:51 pm

Mark -

I just checked and Reaper records x, y and z axis movements (pitch, CC1 and Channel Pressure in my setup) for each individual MIDI note recorded in an individual channel separately. So, yes, it appears you can get the granular level of control you mentioned.

In Reaper, you can double click a recorded MIDI track to open the MIDI editor. Along the bottom there are dropdowns that allow you to select which control parameter to view and edit, along with which channel to view.

If you decide to take a further look at Reaper, be sure to grab a theme that is to your liking as well as look into setting the workspace using 'Screensets/Layouts'. Really makes Reaper more useable, IMO.

Hope all is well!

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:28 pm

Cheers Randy, sounds like Reaper is handling it really nicely, when Ive got a bit more spare time, I'll give Reaper another chance and see if I can find a theme, that will help me appreciate it

Btw, Im enjoying your YT videos - looks like your enjoying your Linnstrument, and making good progress with it.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:09 pm

Traction is even better than Reaper since it has per note midi controller data. This is similar to Cubase 'Note Expression', so both Traktion and Cubase are very good options here if you desire precise and easy editing of note data.

The problem with Reaper is that, even though it records poly-pressure, there is no way to edit it in the piano roll (like channel pressure, velocity and other CC data).

randybrown · Post by **randybrown** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:40 pm

Curious about the application of needing to have such fine degree of editing capability. I understabd that on a technical level it matters. But musically, how much? Great music is often full of flaws.

function · Post by **function** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:26 pm

cubase has best expression control on piano roll

in bitwig, you can do something similar, but only with pitch

curious if any other daw does this type of note expression editing

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:29 pm

function wrote: curious if any other daw does this type of note expression editing

Yes:

himalaya wrote:Tracktion

Midifinger · Post by **Midifinger** » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:17 am

What about Sonar ?

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:14 pm

How do you get Tracktion to work?

I tried it, and yes I can enter per note expression, but I cannot record it (it seems to merge it as it comes in(
heres what I did
- Create Device
- Enable Record per note automation on device
- Add multi channel VST to Track (e.g. u-he ACE)

hit record, sounds fine... but on playback pitch bends (or CCs) are not unique per note...

I can edit the the per note expression, and then it works... so it seems like a recording problem

I also tried editing the clip and turning on 'multi channel' , but that made no difference

Astronaut · Post by **Astronaut** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:57 pm

I am curious why there is no discussion of Logic for this task - as recommended here:

http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstru ... ators.html

Logic seems like a go-to for the recording of the multi-axis CC's.

My desire is related but somewhat different, I really like some of the iPad synths as well as the ergonomics of the Linnstrument/iPad pair but recording the midi (in Logic for instance) and playing the iPad seems to only be solvable with a somewhat annoying extra interface + cable tangle with an added latency worry.

Anyone using an iPad synth and recording the midi in a DAW?

oldgearguy · Post by **oldgearguy** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:33 am

MIDI patchbay?

I have an iPad, computer, Linnstrument, Cirklon, Notron, and other synths and drum machines connected through a 16x32 MIDI patchbay and can record and play any combination.

Once you get more than 2 or 3 pieces of gear, you should consider a patchbay.

gbevin · Post by **gbevin** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:08 am

Astronaut wrote:I am curious why there is no discussion of Logic for this task - as recommended here:

http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstru ... ators.html

Logic seems like a go-to for the recording of the multi-axis CC's.

Logic has great multi-axis sound generators but currently has no dedicated handling for the recording of those, they will all be aggregated together and be quite tedious to work with. To my knowledge, Cubase is the only DAW that handles this all the way in a very intuitive fashion and has been doing this for years. Their editing interface is quite refined, intuitive and powerful. Traktion has some support for this, but only geared towards messages originating from the Seaboard, when the MPE spec gets finalized, it will probably also support this data format. Bitwig is also working towards this with version 2, but last time I checked they could only display and edit one per-note expression lane at a time.

Roger_Linn · Post by **Roger_Linn** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:56 pm

I've found that editing 3 dimensions of continuous data for each note takes a lot more time than editing the occasional pitch bend on a keyboard. You may find it faster to practice a little and play it live, just like on an acoustic instrument but with the advantages of LinnStrument's pitch correction and its easier-to-play interface.

Roger Linn Design

KVR Audio

DAWs best suited for recording the LinnStrument