KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:30 am

Purchasing second hand:

We do no recommend to purchase software second hand, because you never know if the seller owns a legit version or not. Furthermore the license transfer process is rather slow and complicated, since we have to verify to old license and submit the new license manually to the new customer. Instead of purchasing second hand, we recommend that you contact our support and ask for a discount or a special deal.

Just found that on their forum. Of course they will hardly do that in every case, but worth to ask anyway i guess...

ATS · Post by **ATS** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:37 am

Essentially is saying you take a risk buying second hand because you don't know if the seller is trustworthy. Also essentially says you have to pay for a license transfer since it involves some work on their end.
What am I missing, is this only Tone2?

MarlaPodolski · Post by **MarlaPodolski** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:39 am

Did you also know that their installers come with hunter-killer side program that searches all through your Program Files, System32, WOW64 and so on, looking for ripped off copies of their products, and when it finds one it dials home and meanwhile kills the synth, etc., it deems unlicensed?

I never used any Tone2 overpriced shiny VSTs, but I saw this in the freeware Firebird2 they are giving away. Was told all their installers have it now.

As for the OP's post, I count those remarks on their forum as mere BS. They just want you to fork over the ridiculous wad of cash, 'cause they can't rob their customers on a used software sale. Go ahead and buy used and pay more reasonable prices, if you really need their stuff so bad. Personally, I think their synths all sound the same and geared toward EDM only.

BlackWinny · Post by **BlackWinny** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:47 am

I think it is just a warning to say "Be careful when you purchase something second hand". Not a ban. And they add "Perhaps it could be better to ask us for a discount".

I think it's not bad. They don't ban to purchase second hand they just remind the future user to be very careful. If the seller is trusty, fine!... and otherwise maybe Tone2 can make a discount to allow the potential user to get the product new and with a little discount. In my opinion it's nice. When weighing the pros and the cons there are arguments in both (the guaranty on a product sold new, etc.) All the matter is to weigh what is the best solution. But I think they are kind to recall that sellers of second hand products are not all necessarily trusty.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:57 am

Hm, think there was a misunderstanding. I wanted to point out that they could give you a discount if you'd ask them for it. I didn't want to say that they ban anyone, i don't think it should mean that in any case. Actually i understand why they wrote that second hand you can never know if it's a legit copy or not until they prove it. I bought a second hand copy of another plugin here, and was a bit unsure if it's really a legit copy, it seemed a bit shady tbh, as the seller offered the same plugin in a couple of sales. Anyway.

Btw, if this thread is going offtopic, and Tone2's copy protection system, or the general quality of their plugin are being discussed here, i will lock this thread. It has nothing to do with the initial post, so i'd be happy if it could stay on topic, thanks.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:46 am

I've made inquiries about discounts before. Namely regarding academic discounts, and upgrading an existing license in combination with buying a full license for another one of their products.

even with the edu discount it was still not better than buying from an online retailer.

plus they use share-it, and simply ignore an emails I've sent in the past about my not being able to use share-it. subsequently losing them a sale...a direct sale at least.

generally I find their support lacking. nevertheless I'd like to upgrade the license I have and pick up rayblaster.

better to wait for one of their 2-for-1 sales from an online retailer, than waste your time trying to buy direct.

ime.

KingTuck · Post by **KingTuck** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:59 am

MarlaPodolski wrote:Did you also know that their installers come with hunter-killer side program that searches all through your Program Files, System32, WOW64 and so on, looking for ripped off copies of their products, and when it finds one it dials home and meanwhile kills the synth, etc., it deems unlicensed?

I never used any Tone2 overpriced shiny VSTs, but I saw this in the freeware Firebird2 they are giving away. Was told all their installers have it now.

As for the OP's post, I count those remarks on their forum as mere BS. They just want you to fork over the ridiculous wad of cash, 'cause they can't rob their customers on a used software sale. Go ahead and buy used and pay more reasonable prices, if you really need their stuff so bad. Personally, I think their synths all sound the same and geared toward EDM only.

You're an idiot. This is factually wrong. Their installer does no such thing, there is no such "side program". The installer checks the install directory for pirated licenses, nothing fishy about that. Where you got your info I don't know, but it's retarded that you have such confidence. You need to take a step back and learn to think a bit.

There's nothing that makes sense about them all sounding the same too. It just doesn't make sense. What would make their software "shiny"? Whatever, all you said is nonsense. No need to go point by point, all of it, and I mean all of it, is wrong (and easily verifiable as such).

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:23 am

I wrote them once about changing out a product in one of their bundles. They responded quickly and said that while they couldn't do it directly through the site, that they would simply give me the product I wanted instead if I bought the others and then sending the last one via email. Very congenial and business like. I also feel there is more 'EDM-type' in the libraries than I care for, but what they do that isn't, they do quite well. If I sell any of them, it won't be because of any negative practices or subjective opinions on quality.

So to the OP, I have no reason to doubt them doing what they can for someone that asks.

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:01 am

Of course, Tone2 don't do anything fishy or non-leigt, but sometimes they come across as being pretty paranoid.

I've just read on our local forum that they don't sell Electra2 to customers having credit cards issued in my country (the guy reporting this already owns some of their products so this is unlikely a user error).

Well, I was considering Electra2 as my new synth, but this helped me to narrow my choice.

xamido · Post by **xamido** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 am

Bastiaan is a nice guy. I always send him email to ask for discount when i really wanted to get tone2 plugin and he can help you with that. I never have issue with selling their plugin too.

2ZrgE · Post by **2ZrgE** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 am

Purchasing second hand:
Furthermore the license transfer process is rather slow and complicated, since we have to verify to old license and submit the new license manually to the new customer.

That must be indeed an incredible difficult task which may takes weeks to accomplish. Do they even have those modern machined, called computers to work with, or do they use pens, files,typwriters and letters by mail?

Seriously, what they implying is: Buy second hand, and we will do our best to slow the process down.

Or just buy directly from us.

MaxSynths · Post by **MaxSynths** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:33 am

2ZrgE wrote: That must be indeed an incredible difficult task which may takes weeks to accomplish. Do they even have those modern machined, called computers to work with, or do they use pens, files,typwriters and letters by mail?

The process to transfer a license involve some tasks which are time consuming. Is not as fast as you may think and switching a license to a new owner must be done manually. While the original licence is associated automatically when you place the order and your data is already available because you compiled some forms, on a license transfer process you have to find the user information, erase the old owner data, associate the licence with the new user and so on. If you are in the middle of developing some new software, programming an update, doing sound design for a new bank this is a problem (especially if you have to manage multiple license transfers). That's why a license transfer is slower to process.

Concerning the copy protection: I can't believe people is talking again about this. As a beta tester for Tone2 I can assure you that this claims belongs to Sci-Fi...

About Tone2 support: this has been always managed by Bastiaan. Whoever get in touch with him knows that he's a very kind and helpful person.

2ZrgE · Post by **2ZrgE** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:02 am

MaxSynths wrote:
2ZrgE wrote: That must be indeed an incredible difficult task which may takes weeks to accomplish. Do they even have those modern machined, called computers to work with, or do they use pens, files,typwriters and letters by mail?
The process to transfer a license involve some tasks which are time consuming. Is not as fast as you may think and switching a license to a new owner must be done manually. While the original licence is associated automatically when you place the order and your data is already available because you compiled some forms, on a license transfer process you have to find the user information, erase the old owner data, associate the licence with the new user and so on. If you are in the middle of developing some new software, programming an update, doing sound design for a new bank this is a problem (especially if you have to manage multiple license transfers). That's why a license transfer is slower to process.

Where I work we have computers and stuff.

In a well organized company those tasks you are describing are done in five minutes. Maybe without an appropriate CRM and/or database it may take longer. But really? Come on...

Ask U-he if a licence transfer is a complicated thing. Last time I bought a second hand licence the deal was done in half an hour (from contacting the seller on KVR, payment via Paypal, and receicing the licence mail from U-he). Just saying.

MaxSynths · Post by **MaxSynths** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:19 am

2ZrgE wrote:
MaxSynths wrote:
2ZrgE wrote: That must be indeed an incredible difficult task which may takes weeks to accomplish. Do they even have those modern machined, called computers to work with, or do they use pens, files,typwriters and letters by mail?
The process to transfer a license involve some tasks which are time consuming. Is not as fast as you may think and switching a license to a new owner must be done manually. While the original licence is associated automatically when you place the order and your data is already available because you compiled some forms, on a license transfer process you have to find the user information, erase the old owner data, associate the licence with the new user and so on. If you are in the middle of developing some new software, programming an update, doing sound design for a new bank this is a problem (especially if you have to manage multiple license transfers). That's why a license transfer is slower to process.
Where I work we have computers and stuff.

In a well organized company those tasks you are describing are done in five minutes. Maybe without an appropriate CRM and/or database it may take longer. But really? Come on...

Ask U-he if a licence transfer is a complicated thing. Last time I bought a second hand licence the deal was done in half an hour (from contacting the seller on KVR, payment via Paypal, and receicing the licence mail from U-he). Just saying.

It's not complicated at all. It just require to be done manually, unless you have a robot with a working A.I. working for you, and for this reason could be slow even for a well organized (but small) company.
Could be slow doesn't mean that is slow; it means that in case it took a bit longer the final user has been informed about it in the FAQ.

Concerning U-he (or Volkswagen, or Pepsi, or everything else...) I suppose you have to contact U-he, not Tone2. For Tone2 it works like explained in their FAQ, it's a piece of information they are giving to the user based on how they manage things.

basslinemaster · Post by **basslinemaster** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:47 am

2ZrgE wrote:
Purchasing second hand:
Furthermore the license transfer process is rather slow and complicated, since we have to verify to old license and submit the new license manually to the new customer.
That must be indeed an incredible difficult task which may takes weeks to accomplish. Do they even have those modern machined, called computers to work with, or do they use pens, files,typwriters and letters by mail?

Seriously, what they implying is: Buy second hand, and we will do our best to slow the process down.

Or just buy directly from us.

Well said. They obviously went to the 'Spectrasonics School of Customer Care and Licence Transferring' - LOL.
These companies could actually make ALL secondhand sales of their software completely safe, by allowing owners to set a piece of software they had bought as 'For sale', create a special URL which the owner sends to the prospective buyer, which is on the company's website, and says 'Product X is now available for sale by Mr John Smith for Mr Fred Bloggs (buyer)', and then the buyer sends the money to the company itself, who charge a $10 fee, and then send the remainder of the money to the previous owner, and change the ownership information to the new owner. (All of that would obviously be done BY A COMPUTER. LOL. Just needed to point that out, since apparently Tone2 believe we are all idiots who don't use computers every day, and don't understand how the internet works...)

Did you know this thing about Tone2 plugins?