MeldaProduction

Svama · Post by **Svama** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:47 am

Hi Vojtech,

that´s something we need for television postproduction every day. It´s a plugin which analyses the audio and normalized it at a specific level, for example -23 LU (Loudness unit).
Maybe you could integrate somehing like this in your EBU Loudness Meter.
Exisiting plugin examples: Grimm LevelNorm, Nugen LM-Correct2.

Thanks and greets

Marek

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:07 pm

Hi Marek,

well, noted, but quite frankly I'm not that much into this stuff. Nugen and their neverending EBU stuff...
Am I guessing correctly that all you need is to pass the whole audio through MLoudnessAnalyzer and if the integrated loudness is say -10LU and you want -5LU, then it should set +5dB gain??

Svama · Post by **Svama** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:53 pm

That´s correct, that´s all what these plugins do, no magic. Nice would be, to see the source loudness, means before normalizing.

Thanks and greets

Marek

Oliver.Lucas · Post by **Oliver.Lucas** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:16 am

The party's over.
I guess some people (like Nugen) have made ridiculous amounts of money because all of a sudden everybody in the TV world needed deliver according to those specs.

Now the market is saturated. Everybody who needed a solution has one.....
We need Melda for much more sophisticated stuff that no one else can produce

Svama · Post by **Svama** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:20 am

We are working with Audiogrimm Levelnorm and the licensing system is not good, the software is slow and not good, if there is something interesting for a much better price, we will buy some licenses!

Vojtechs words sounds like it is not that difficult to implement it in EVOU Loudness Meter. We will see.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:14 am

Ok, one problem here - how to analyze the whole audio? You could let the host play the whole thing, do some offline processing, drag & drop the whole file into the plugin... How does the solution you are using take care of this?

Svama · Post by **Svama** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:18 am

We are working insisde Avid Media Composer.
First we have all the edits in the audio and many tracks, but before we use the plugin (at the moment it is an audio suite plugin, another interface, beside aax, vst and so on) we make an audio mixdown to one stereo track. On this we put the plugin and render it (it´s an offline process), but I think with aax it´s a problem cause you can not put these plugins on an audio track inside Media Composer. I have to test it.
Sorry, some problems, which make it not easy as I thought.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:36 pm

First of all, Audio Suite is not another format, it's just AAX/RTAS again, just used differently and it's just the horrible interface design that makes these in a way 2 different formats, at least for the users, I think it's just another horrible marketing way...

Anyway you render it anyway right? So how about if the plugin would have a place to drag & drop (or search for) a file, that would then analyze offline. Same as MAuto(Dynamic)Eq has the feature that analyzes spectral content of a file.

Svama · Post by **Svama** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:12 pm

That's not good, cause that needs time we'd like to save. We are only doing it inside Media Composer on the timeline and not with an extra exported file.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:00 pm

Hmm, aaaaha, so by mixdown you mean just create a buss and send everything there? That's normal in pretty much all other hosts, didn't realize you need an extra step in PT...
Anyway how about this: there would be an "analyze" button, you'd just press it and it would measure the integrated loudness. Wait - all you need to do is put MLoudnessAnalyzer reset it (panic button or just anything), do the "rendering" and you have the integrated loudness, right? Then all that's left is to calculate the necessary gain, correct? So a simple subtraction...

Svama · Post by **Svama** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:41 pm

We are talking about an editing software, not pro tools!
The rest sounds fine.
We have astereo or a two mono tracks of our finished edit in the timeline of Media Composer, not Pro Tools. Put the plugin on these tracks and render it or first analyze to see if the loudness is correct. If not we render it, but it doesn't not normalize the he'll out of it. Something I forget, the max true peak should be -3dB.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:41 pm

Well, peak (and true peak) is not really up to the plugin. Sure it can clip it (or limit it), but such operation would change the loudness again. How do you do it then? Could you tell me the whole story? You are telling me just the small pieces and quite frankly it's pretty hard to see the whole image.

Svama · Post by **Svama** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:19 pm

Sorry Vojtech, details at monday.

Have a great weekend

Svama · Post by **Svama** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:03 am

Hi Vojtech,

here are the details:

We need the following information:

1. Integrated LU
2. TruePeak dbTP
3. LRA (Loudness Range) LU

The values of these terms are changing from time to time for us. At the moment we are after these:

1. Integrated of -23 LUFS = 0 LU diferring of +/-0,5 is permitted. Would be great to see the differing value
2. -1 dbTP
3. This is variable and program dependent

Would be nice to see these values and to change the target levels of the Integrated and the TruePeak. Then we need an analyze function and a render possiblity.

Maybe you can do something for us?!

Thanks and greets

Marek

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:52 am

Hmmm, thanks for the info Svama!
Here's the problem - these parameters are not dependent on each other! You would need a limiter to get all this. Not that it wouldn't be possible, but it's not just normalization really, it could SERIOUSLY change your audio! E.g. if you want specific integrated LU, easy... but then you'd definitely have a different dbTP and LRA. And btw. someone is really specifying true-peak dB? That's just idiotic! The is not such thing as real "true peak" value!! It depends on so many things... yes, it's not varying too much, but still there are often quite big differences...

MeldaProduction

KVR Audio

EBU Level Normalizer Plugin