Windows 10 **FORCED** OS updates -- thoughts?

[aciddose]

Aside from that i tried it a little bit and found that my pc was installing 3rd party stuff without my permission.

You can go into the network configuration, firewall, disable incoming and outgoing connections for any application not explicitly authorized. Problem solved. (On win 7 you can also apply this to core windows features like update. I haven't tested 10 yet.)

With the "pro" version you get a pop-up that says "whatever.exe tried to access the network but there is no rule to allow it, should an exception be added?", you hit "yes", it adds one. You hit "no", it doesn't ask you again.

I get to see in the log all the stupid crap that tried to "phone home" without ever telling me. Try it, you'd be surprised.

[Scottex]

Aside from that i tried it a little bit and found that my pc was installing 3rd party stuff without my permission.

You can go into the network configuration, firewall, disable incoming and outgoing connections for any application not explicitly authorized. Problem solved. (On win 7 you can also apply this to core windows features like update. I haven't tested 10 yet.)

With the "pro" version you get a pop-up that says "whatever.exe tried to access the network but there is no rule to allow it, should an exception be added?", you hit "yes", it adds one. You hit "no", it doesn't ask you again.

I get to see in the log all the stupid crap that tried to "phone home" without ever telling me. Try it, you'd be surprised.

thanks for the tips, already installed my Win7 back. So now you should tell Windows how to avoid malaware and spyware? This should be done even before connect to the net... i think this is becoming very awkward...

I'll probably stick with Win7 for a long time and maybe then switch to the Apple side, really tired about Microsoft's choice lately... This is probably only my bad experience and other users probably are happy, but i suggest you guys to think twice before installing Win10. Atleast try it on a secondary machine, like a did with my laptop before ruin your main pc. Cheers and Good luck.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I'm more annoyed about the "Microsoft default everything/Microsoft Account/Wifi Sense (password sharing)" then I am about automatic updates.

Some Pros:
1. People who don't update their OS and have an insecure OS as a result are taken out of the equation
2. Developers can code for the most recent version of Windows and reasonably expect 99% of Windows 10 users are on that same exact version
3. Automatic driver updates can be turned off (audio, video, and Firewire getting disabled here)
4. Automatic seeding of updates can be turned off
5. The OS is "supposed to" only download updates during periods of low bandwidth

Questions I still have:
1. Will the OS be smart enough not to seek/install updates while I'm doing mission critical DAW work?
2. Is there a process for rolling back updates if they create a problem?
3. What happens when updates inevitable fail to install?

If the answers to my questions are:

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Failed updates will be rolled back and tried again on a later date

...then I have no problem with any of this and view auto-updating as a good thing. I like that when I launch Chrome it quietly checks and downloads updates, and that when I next launch it, I'm running the newest version. It's where most computer security needs to go. Make updates transparant to the user, but have an option to rollback if there's a problem. This way everyone's on the same page and "grandma's" PC is always up to date.

[aciddose]

thanks for the tips, already installed my Win7 back. So now you should tell Windows how to avoid malaware and spyware?

No, this applies to win7.

Yes, you're right. Black-lists are completely dumb. Only white-lists should be used, with the default "DO NOT TRUST".

That would piss off everyone who can't maintain their own white-list though. For the rest of us (me) we have the option to do so.

[EvilDragon]

Questions I still have:
1. Will the OS be smart enough not to seek/install updates while I'm doing mission critical DAW work?
2. Is there a process for rolling back updates if they create a problem?
3. What happens when updates inevitable fail to install?

If the answers to my questions are:

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Failed updates will be rolled back and tried again on a later date

1. Yes (Windows Update is idle time process, so it doesn't happen when CPU is doing some heavy lifting)
2. Yes
3. Don't know, but your guess is probably right.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Questions I still have:
1. Will the OS be smart enough not to seek/install updates while I'm doing mission critical DAW work?
2. Is there a process for rolling back updates if they create a problem?
3. What happens when updates inevitable fail to install?

If the answers to my questions are:

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Failed updates will be rolled back and tried again on a later date

1. Yes (Windows Update is idle time process, so it doesn't happen when CPU is doing some heavy lifting)
2. Yes
3. Don't know, but your guess is probably right.

Which makes me 100% ok with Windows new approach to updates.

[aciddose]

re: 3. It may not give you the most informative error message however.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Turn off wifi if you dont want updates when using your DAW if you dont want updates, simplest n00b solution

[kbaccki]

I like that when I launch Chrome it quietly checks and downloads updates, and that when I next launch it, I'm running the newest version. It's where most computer security needs to go. Make updates transparant to the user, but have an option to rollback if there's a problem. This way everyone's on the same page and "grandma's" PC is always up to date.

I generally agree with most of what you said (hows that for middle of the road?), but I can't get behind the "well Chrome does it, or android does it, so what's the big deal" argument. There's a huge difference between auto-updating a web browser vs auto-updating an entire computer system, which in the case of "enthusiasts" (I think is what the tech world calls us) is a carefully crafted and tweaked hardware/software ecosystem... let's face it, we're kinda pushing the envelope here for what these general purpose systems are ultimately designed for. Something as simple as a dodgy FireWire driver or USB firmware could render a $1500 audio interface unusable. Yes, I said it, at some point Microsoft screwed up FireWire for everybody.

And as far as something a bit more involved than a single app like a browser or whatever... Yes an android phone is another level of complexity, but you're not going to be popping OTS high end graphics cards, SSDs, etc into a smartphone, hanging iLok dongles with $10,000 worth of software licenses, and the aforementioned $1500 audio interfaces etc etc etc. Worst case Google breaks your YouTube app or CandyCrush for a couple days... not quite the same thing.

Anyway, what the hell was wrong with the old mechanism? Enable it by default, and 95% of the population gets automatic updates, and allow the user to just disable it outright (with or without notification, which BTW I've always used on my DAW machines going back to XP - check but no download, and CERTAINLY no install). People who actively turn off auto update altogether are also likely the types who are ultra anal about what's going on their machine to begin with... They still (probably) install all the critical security updates, just at their own pace. And who really wants to knowingly keep their machine exposed to the latest Mega Trojan?

[kbaccki]

Turn off wifi if you dont want updates when using your DAW if you dont want updates, simplest n00b solution

When wifi is on windows will just use it to download and install updates. So the only solution is to disable network altogether. But if I do that how the h-e-double-hockey-stick do I download gigabytes of sample libraries and other software that I don't really need?

[kbaccki]

Questions I still have:
1. Will the OS be smart enough not to seek/install updates while I'm doing mission critical DAW work?
2. Is there a process for rolling back updates if they create a problem?
3. What happens when updates inevitable fail to install?

If the answers to my questions are:

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Failed updates will be rolled back and tried again on a later date

1. Yes (Windows Update is idle time process, so it doesn't happen when CPU is doing some heavy lifting)
2. Yes
3. Don't know, but your guess is probably right.

Which makes me 100% ok with Windows new approach to updates.

Even if it's only downloading/updating while idle, you should still be concerned with what is being updated. So if MS decides you need... Oh, I don't know... the, ahem, very latest Nvidia driver, then you'll get a pleasant dialog informing you that you are now the proud owner of said driver, and please reboot at your earliest convenience. And I'm sure it will keep reminding you to please reboot at your earliest convenience. So if you're in the middle of something, let's say for days at a time, or maybe you just don't feel like beta testing nvidia's latest creation... well, what are we doing here?

[incubus]

edited

Latency is not lower. Caught believing the hype, sorry.

It's not for me. May turn into the kind someday but for now good old windows 7 is still the most supreme OS.

[Zexila]

But IMO it's really hard to believe that is better than a tweaked Win7.

Comparing it to tweaked opponent also, no?

Are really peoply liking those flat GUI over the Aero trasparency thing??

Aero is hideous, looks cheap, trashy, kitsch is the right word

[aciddose]

I actually use the "classic" style in win7. The hardware acceleration is still enabled, but I can't stand all the extra bulk of the aero window decorations taking up half the screen.

That isn't even getting subjective yet, it's a practical, objective concern. Aero also looks like a pig's arsehole.

[EvilDragon]

Even if it's only downloading/updating while idle, you should still be concerned with what is being updated. So if MS decides you need... Oh, I don't know... the, ahem, very latest Nvidia driver, then you'll get a pleasant dialog informing you that you are now the proud owner of said driver, and please reboot at your earliest convenience. And I'm sure it will keep reminding you to please reboot at your earliest convenience. So if you're in the middle of something, let's say for days at a time, or maybe you just don't feel like beta testing nvidia's latest creation... well, what are we doing here?

You can disable automatic driver updates via Windows Update per device in Device Manager. This works in all editions of Windows.

Something as simple as a dodgy FireWire driver or USB firmware could render a $1500 audio interface unusable. Yes, I said it, at some point Microsoft screwed up FireWire for everybody.

FireWire has been a very tricky thing ever since its inception. There have been some very crappy FW chipsets that were doing things in unusual ways (not according to spec), so it's not entirely MS' fault for that.

More info: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/10737686-post58.html