Tracktion Software

hexman · Post by **hexman** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:31 am

I don't seen an easy way to adjust the tempo map to fit the bars/measures to audio.

In other DAWS it's usually something like "fit improvisation" or "midi map tempo". Usually you can do something like tap along to the actual beat and create a series of either markers or midi events, then convert that to a tempo map. This way the tempo bars/measures lines up with the audio as the audio drifts in tempo. Note: I'm not talking about stretching audio etc, just changing the tempo so the "grid" makes sense.

I find that a lot of audio stuff I want to use does NOT have perfect timing. Seems like this is such a common thing that unless you're using "canned" loops or something it never matches up.

I see you CAN add tempo events at specific places, then the visual change can "line up" the bars to the audio. And T does much better than most in giving you visual feedback. But that seems pretty tedious. Any ideas or any features I'm missing?

jabe · Post by **jabe** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:44 am

I don't know either, but Melodyne might do it for you.

hexman · Post by **hexman** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:01 am

No, melodyne has nothing to do with what I want to do.

Think of it as that the bars/measures really have nothing to do with absolute time except via the temop. They can (should) be arbitrarily anywhere needed to "line up" the audio with where the bars/measures time is.

So I want an easy way to overlay them on the audio to match any slight changes in the audio over time.

Just about EVERY song out there (aside from very locked dance beat stuff) has a varying tempo. If you bring in a song - say an mp3 etc - it will *not* have a constant beat but will slightly (or not so slightly) change over time. That means the lines for the bars/ measures will get out of sync with the beat. Setting *one* tempo by tapping etc doesnt work, and having to adjust at various multiple places in the song is very tedious.

It's a little different if you start a song in the program, and play to the click, etc. But not if you are bringing in material you want to work with.

chico.co.uk · Post by **chico.co.uk** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:48 am

There is no tempo map feature in Tracktion. I've been asking for one since about version 1.6

This describes a manual way to do it, if that's any use to you;

http://www.paintingbynumbers.com/bootcamp/

frankvg · Post by **frankvg** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:00 pm

Yes, unfortunately this is one of T's shortcomings.

Dave, could this perhaps be implemented with a macro? So, for instance I put the cursor at the beginning of where a bar should start and have the tempo calculated so it all lines up?

hexman · Post by **hexman** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:31 pm

Thanks chico.co.uk - I'll have a look at that. Hopefully they might improve tempo mapping over time.

frankvg - a marco would be helpful. That's how REAPER does it: by looking between markers, it calculates the correct tempo for the measures specified. That along would be EXTREMELY helpful.

So for instance if I know a section is 8 bars - I could automatically set the tempo for that, then the next one etc, but not have to spilt up the song and then have to stitch them back together.

chico.co.uk · Post by **chico.co.uk** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:44 pm

Yeah, I hadn't thought as far as macros. Will have to look into whether it's do-able, or there's a good way to automate the manual process described in the link I posted.

If I get time, and manage anything useful, i'll shout

jabe · Post by **jabe** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:06 pm

hexman wrote:No, melodyne has nothing to do with what I want to do.

It was discussed last year. http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5824464

It appears to be possible with Studio One, but the video commentary is awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtTvIsCzJZA

hexman · Post by **hexman** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:16 pm

^^ thanks - I'll take a look at that and see if it's what Im after.

gigazaga · Post by **gigazaga** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:42 pm

hexman wrote:I don't seen an easy way to adjust the tempo map to fit the bars/measures to audio.

In other DAWS it's usually something like "fit improvisation" or "midi map tempo". Usually you can do something like tap along to the actual beat and create a series of either markers or midi events, then convert that to a tempo map. This way the tempo bars/measures lines up with the audio as the audio drifts in tempo. Note: I'm not talking about stretching audio etc, just changing the tempo so the "grid" makes sense.

I find that a lot of audio stuff I want to use does NOT have perfect timing. Seems like this is such a common thing that unless you're using "canned" loops or something it never matches up.

I see you CAN add tempo events at specific places, then the visual change can "line up" the bars to the audio. And T does much better than most in giving you visual feedback. But that seems pretty tedious. Any ideas or any features I'm missing?

I agree tempo mapping can be a bit tedious. For me the workflow in Tracktion is similar to that in Studio One. There might be a way to create some macros to speed it up. I created this video to show the workflow I use:

https://w-edstrom.wistia.com/medias/687engp5ar

Before T6 the timeline didn't dynamically stretch when changing BPM. The workflow is slightly improved over T5.

hexman · Post by **hexman** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:09 pm

Thanks gigazaga - I'll check that out as well.

The video jabe shows is very interesting - (thanks Jabe!)
I did not realize melodyne can extract timing and export tempo mapping. I have SONAR and will have to play with it.
Has anyone tried the process shown in jabe's video? (It's shown working in Studio 1)

hexman · Post by **hexman** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:18 pm

gigazaga wrote:
I agree tempo mapping can be a bit tedious. For me the workflow in Tracktion is similar to that in Studio One. There might be a way to create some macros to speed it up. I created this video to show the workflow I use:

https://w-edstrom.wistia.com/medias/687engp5ar

Before T6 the timeline didn't dynamically stretch when changing BPM. The workflow is slightly improved over T5.

Hey that's definitely workable - thanks. Very impressed with T6 and the response form people. I remember the first versions had a few issues, but I really did like the feel of it. Looks like I'll have to evaluate it some more but it feels so much easier and fun than the other DAWS I've been using that I'll wind up getting it.

Oh, and that book looks like a winner too.

chico.co.uk · Post by **chico.co.uk** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:22 pm

gigazaga wrote:Before T6 the timeline didn't dynamically stretch when changing BPM. The workflow is slightly improved over T5.

I'm pretty sure it did, unless i've misunderstood what you mean ... when I test it now, in T5.4.2, it does
You mean if you have it in bars and beats mode, that they bunch up, or separate out further, depending on how you changed BPM, right?

chico.co.uk · Post by **chico.co.uk** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:36 pm

Think I must be misunderstanding what you mean, because the bars and beats timeline changed the same way back in T4 as well. I need to watch your video yet, I'm probably missing something.

gigazaga · Post by **gigazaga** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:33 pm

chico.co.uk wrote:Think I must be misunderstanding what you mean, because the bars and beats timeline changed the same way back in T4 as well. I need to watch your video yet, I'm probably missing something.

It changed just not dynamically as you were dragging it. It changed after you let go. It's possible I don't remember correctly too. I remember that when I was working with the earlier 6.x releases and beta it didn't change as you drag it, Curvature did but not BPM. I logged an issue against it and Dave fixed it to work as it does now. It's possible it was more of a bug in the early versions of 6.x and the change made it work like 4 and 5. At the time, I thought it was a new behavior. It's not really that important, the video shows how it works now.

Tracktion Software

KVR Audio

tempo mapping in tracktion